Pedersoli Trade Gun Frizzen

[Siringo]

I purchased a used Pedersoli Trade Gun early this year. I have enjoyed shooting it with balls or shot. This fall I have been grouse hunting with it and an issue came up that is not prevelant in general shooting. Namely, the frizzen is not fitted close enough to the side of the barrel. While walking, twisting and turning the gun, the prime ends up working its way out through the gap. The gap is about a 1/16th. Anyone else run into this and what is the easiest solution?

 

[Phil Coffins]

Is the lock plate touching the barrel?

 

[bigstick6017555]

My last T/C flint lock rifle I worked on had some what the same problem. I removed the lock and could see where the frizzen was touching the pan and where it was not. At that point I started filing down the high spots, slow as you go till you get them to match together. Before you start filing make sure that you check all probable points that could be causing this, may be a misaligned frissen screw. Good luck

 

[Siringo]

Is the lock plate touching the barrel?

Yes

 

[Siringo]

My last T/C flint lock rifle I worked on had some what the same problem. I removed the lock and could see where the frizzen was touching the pan and where it was not. At that point I started filing down the high spots, slow as you go till you get them to match together. Before you start filing make sure that you check all probable points that could be causing this, may be a misaligned frissen screw. Good luck

The frizzen mates pan fine. It’s the edge of
The frizzen that is supposed to be right up against the barrel.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Sounds like the whole lock needs inletting some more and the area that contacts the barrel relieved too.
Other than that thin the frizzen hinge and fabricate a distance piece to go on the other side, then refit the screw.

 

[bigstick6017555]

The frizzen mates pan fine. It’s the edge of
The frizzen that is supposed to be right up against the barrel.
[/Q

Being it was a used gun, is it possible that may be some one try to put a different frizzen on not meant for that gun. Other than that I would go along with Britsmoothy's idea

 

[EC121]

Since you say the lockplate is against the barrel, I would solder a piece of 1/16"(or whatever thickness is needed) brass or steel on the frizzen and file it to shape. Soldering temps, especially the Solder-It paste, won't harm the temper of the frizzen.

 

[Notchy Bob]

You have gotten some very good suggestions. I have one more thought to add. Some folks may not like this, but it is traditional and i believe it may have been addressed in A Treatise on English Shooting (from 1772 or 1773).

Find a small bird feather (legal, of course...) with a quill that will insert easily but snugly in your touch hole. Insert the feather before you load, and just leave it there until you have settled down into a shooting position, and not walking, twisting, and turning your gun every which way. Withdraw the quill when you are ready, and prime your pan.

The feather quill does several things. First, it ensures the vent is clear. Second, by leaving it in place, you create a flash channel into your powder charge. Since the main charge is ignited by the incandescent flash of the priming, you may even get faster ignition. If powder is actually in the vent, you get more of a fuse effect, with a slight delay.

Third, it will prevent dampness from getting to your powder charge. Powder can absorb atmospheric water, even through that little touch hole if conditions are right, especially if there is a really significant gap between the pan cover and the barrel. Old-timers would sometimes put a dab of grease after closing the pan to help seal that gap if they wanted to carry their gun primed and ready.

A lot of old rifles have a small hole bored up into the stock in the toe line, just aft of the trigger guard. This was the "feather hole," where the feather was kept handy and ready for use.

Again, you have gotten some good advice about improving the fit and closing or narrowing that gap, and you'll probably want to improve the fit at some point. However, the problems we face keeping our flintlocks running are not new, and our predecessors worked out various ways to deal with them.

Best of luck to you!

Notchy Bob

 

[Siringo]

The previous owner was undoubtedly having ignition issues. The pan is wallowed out up against the barrel and a small groove was cut into the touch hole liner from 6 0’clock to the hole. Pedersoli’s have patent breaches. When I got it, I looked at the bore with a small camera. The patent breach was nearly plugged. I filled the bore with hot water and let it sit and then forced it all out the touch hole. That cleaned it out. Kind of a grayish residue. Maybe someone was trying to use a substitute powder.

It is entirely possible that another frizzen was installed. This one certainly has been reheat treated. I have no misfires.

When I am grouse hunting the pan has to have powder in it. So adding a filler piece may be the simplistic way to go.

 

[EC121]

The gray stuff occurs when a gun sits for a while. The residue will swell into the gray stuff. Drums are bad about plugging like that if not shot regularly or cleaned really well.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I made a mistake in my previous post (#9, above) in reference to the use of a touch-hole feather. I got my sources confused. A Treatise on English Shooting, by George Edie (1773) is well worth reading, especially for bird hunters and anyone shooting a flintlock fowling piece, but the reference to the use of a feather to keep the vent clear actually came from An Essay on Shooting, by Gervais de Marolles (1787):

Again, an excellent period reference for flintlock smoothbore shooters, although, interestingly, the writers of these two publications occasionally contradicted one another. As an example, one recommended blowing down the barrel after the shot, the other said never to do so. Even back then, the experts disagreed! Imagine if they had had a forum like this one...

One other reference to the touch-hole feather comes from John James Audubon (circa 1810). I shamelessly copied this from a post by @Artificer in another thread:

John James Audubon, c1810, describing his host preparing to go raccoon hunting:

"… He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a feather into the touch-hole. To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen. He takes from his bag a bullet, pulls with his teeth the wooden stopper from his powder-horn, lays the ball in one hand, and with the other pours the powder upon it until it is just overtopped. Raising the horn to his mouth, he again closes it with the stopper, and restores it to its place. He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the "patch" over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen. The elastic hickory rod, held with both hands, smoothly pushes the ball to its bed; once, twice, thrice has it rebounded. The rifle leaps as it were into the hunter’s arms, the feather is drawn from the touch-hole, the powder fills the pan, which is closed. “Now I’m ready,” cries the woodsman….

Journals, Vol. 2, (1972 reprint), page 492.

Getting back to the original poster and his problem with the frizzen, he made a good point in that he needs to keep his gun primed and ready while grouse hunting, so leaving a feather in the vent until just before taking the shot would not be practical. We wish him the best of luck in getting that barrel/frizzen gap tightened up, so he can put some grouse in the pot!

Best regards,

Notchy Bob