Pedersoli vs. Loyalist Arms Indian

[Surfinator58]

I'm happy with both of mine My Brothers pedersoli looks like a piece of pine covered in plastic I prefer a more natural finish with some wood grain but that's just me this is my 1733 French flintlock pistol along with thefusil de chasse

 

[winchester1873]

Two men in my reenacting group had the Indian crap. Nothing but trouble.

 

[pheenix99]

I found one guy that assembled a Bess from Rifle Shoppe parts and it looked so gorgeous, George III himself would be proud to be his patron. Sadly that level of skill is beyond my budget.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

If the Indian stocks were made of something other than Teak....I'd consider it.

Yes the stock contributes a lot to the added weight but it's not teak, it's rosewood. Doesn't change the situation, I admit. It's the only wood that serves in India for gunstocks.

Importing wood from Europe (if it was affordable) is a no no due to the possible transmission of insects and wood diseases. Still you're looking at 2x the price for the Italian musket, and the Pedersoli quality has slipped a great deal due to COVID.

As far as "Indian crap" goes, I have four India origin muskets and smoothbores from Loyalist Arms. They all shoot well both blanks and live loads. There IS a difference of what you get depending on the importer from which you buy.

LD

 

[Surfinator58]

Two men in my reenacting group had the Indian crap. Nothing but trouble.

There's a great video on YouTube a guy who bought one from track of the Wolf it was crap also and cost him 1200 dollars

 

[pheenix99]

Yes the stock contributes a lot to the added weight but it's not teak, it's rosewood. Doesn't change the situation, I admit. It's the only wood that serves in India for gunstocks.

Importing wood from Europe (if it was affordable) is a no no due to the possible transmission of insects and wood diseases. Still you're looking at 2x the price for the Italian musket, and the Pedersoli quality has slipped a great deal due to COVID.

As far as "Indian crap" goes, I have four India origin muskets and smoothbores from Loyalist Arms. They all shoot well both blanks and live loads. There IS a difference of what you get depending on the importer from which you buy.

LD

I've looked at several Indian samples, trying to find nice things to say....While I'm sure they're safe and functional, the stocks just didn't appeal to me. I'm on the verge of affording a new Bess (or Charleville), I'm hoping I can find one here. Something about a used and well loved weapon that a brand new one just can't offer.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've looked at several Indian samples, trying to find nice things to say....While I'm sure they're safe and functional, the stocks just didn't appeal to me. I'm on the verge of affording a new Bess (or Charleville), I'm hoping I can find one here. Something about a used and well loved weapon that a brand new one just can't offer.

You do make a valid point
LD

 

[pheenix99]

You do make a valid point
LD

That's been known to happen from time to time.

 

[Packrat]

I have a Baker from Loyalist, The bore was erratic to say the least, .595 t0 .602 This was no problem to me as I had intended to send it to Bobby Hoyt and re-barrel to .54 caliber.
It's a bit heaver but it works most of the time. I did have to put a touch hole liner in as the existing hole allowed to much pressure to escape, solved the problem. Also have bayonet for same

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Had a Pedersoli, got 8 shots out of it, then it broke, and it broke, and it broke.
As Harry would say" Do you feel lucky?"

 

[pheenix99]

Had a Pedersoli, got 8 shots out of it, then it broke, and it broke, and it broke.
As Harry would say" Do you feel lucky?"

Can you offer any specifics?

 

[sturmkatze]

The thing is, trying to do it cheap is hard. Sometimes you can find a used one at other time period reenactments fora markets. Just don't get on a hurry.

 

[longtoothpard]

I've looked at several Indian samples, trying to find nice things to say....While I'm sure they're safe and functional, the stocks just didn't appeal to me. I'm on the verge of affording a new Bess (or Charleville), I'm hoping I can find one here. Something about a used and well loved weapon that a brand new one just can't offer.

I held out for a used Navy Arms Charleville and found one at the Tulsa Gun Show last year for $700. Those were made by Miruko back in the 70s and 80s. I have owned an older Pedersoli Bess. That was a great musket too. The older guns like those are better in my opinion. And they are a fraction of the cost of new.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The older guns like those are better in my opinion. And they are a fraction of the cost of new.

Well not always.
Just now I saw a Japanese Bess, used, with a starting price of $1395.00....
Some sellers simply don't know the "market" and will get downright ornery about pricing.
LD

 

[longtoothpard]

Well not always.
Just now I saw a Japanese Bess, used, with a starting price of $1395.00....
Some sellers simply don't know the "market" and will get downright ornery about pricing.
LD

True. They base it on what new Peds are going for. Still, good ones can be found, just have to be patient, or lucky. Maybe both.

 

[jd945043]

I'm admittedly a fan of the Indian flintlocks. Well, the Loyalist Arms finished ones. I have a Brown Bess and two pistols from them. The finishing done on the one Indian pistol I have from Veteran Arms I was not impressed with, so I'm not recommending their products. I'm always surprised by the amount of bad-mouthing of the Indian guns that occurs on these forums. A lot of it is out of ignorance and most of the people making the worst comments don't own one and are passing mostly hearsay. Nevertheless, I figured I'd see what was so great about a Pedersoli.

First off, it was over twice the amount I paid for the same model I purchased from Loyalist Arms. Now, some of that is offset by the fact that I didn't have to wait 8 to 12 weeks to get it like for the Indian guns. But I'm still paying twice the amount and I was expecting twice the value. To be honest, I was totally UNDERWHELMED by the Pedersoli.

Wood fit and finish were better, yes. The cutouts in the stock for the lock are cleaner and more precise. But things went downhill from there for me. It still had some finish flaws and I absolutely despise the finish Pedersoli uses. It has almost a plastic look to it and it is considerably lighter in color than on any of my other guns. So that was the first strike against it (well, technically the price was the first, but I'm going to ignore that for now). The finish would need to be stripped and redone. It would bug me eternally otherwise. The second strike was that none of my spring clamps will work on the frizzen spring. They just slide off the spring due to the design of the spring. I don't have that issue on any other flintlock I have but this one. So getting a different spring clamp just for this pistol is another negative. The third strike was the pan was brass and not steel. The pan surface looked like a freshly plowed farmers' field and would require far more effort to polish it smooth than I've ever had to do on my Indian flintlocks. The fourth and final strike was the fit between the pan and the barrel was terrible. There was a gap sufficient to allow significant amounts of powder to fall between the lock and barrel. Tightening the lock did nothing, so I would need to remove wood to seat the lock deeper. Something I might expect (but haven't yet encountered four firearms later) on the cheaper Indian guns, but certainly wasn't expecting on an $850 pistol. It looks like while they take exceptional care on the wood fitting they seem to lack quality control where it really matters (like the lock and pan to barrel fit).

Personally, I'll stick with my Loyalist Arms Indian guns. This Pedersoli is going back to Dixie Gunworks. Pedersoli just doesn't seem to be worth the money considering you still have to "fix" them.

Totally agree with you

 

[longtoothpard]

I have owned Indian muskets and found Loyalist has the better ones. I have owned Pedersoli too, 1795, 1816, 1861 and Bess. The older Pedersoli are better than the newer. The 1795 I had to beat the barrel bands off with a wooden mallet and sand the stock down. The 1861 had a bent trigger guard from the factory. The 1816 I bought in 1993 is good but very chunky. The first Bess was made in the 1970s. It was good all around. The second Bess bad a plastic type finish and was made in 2013. Only one I kept was the 1816.

Some of the Indian muskets I've owned were not so good. Painted on finish, soft steel parts, and hard to find parts. I found Loyalist muskets were better than others but stocks on a lot of the Indian muskets are teak not Walnut. But you do the best you can with what you have.

My pride and joy is a late 1970s Navy Arms Miruko Charleville I bought in 2021 at the Tulsa Gun Show for $700. Like brand new. The issue with it is a two piece stock that is not walnut. But it is very light and not chunky like Pededsoli. Just can't get parts if they break. I have discovered that a mainspring from an Armi Sport 1842 fits a Navy Arms Charleville.

 

[springfield art]

I held out for a used Navy Arms Charleville and found one at the Tulsa Gun Show last year for $700. Those were made by Miruko back in the 70s and 80s. I have owned an older Pedersoli Bess. That was a great musket too. The older guns like those are better in my opinion. And they are a fraction of the cost of new.

Agree. Not sure who made my Charleville, have to get it out and research a bit. Bought it used nearly new at auction several years ago. Thanks.

 

[springfield art]

True. They base it on what new Peds are going for. Still, good ones can be found, just have to be patient, or lucky. Maybe both.

Yeah, they base it on new prices, but at the same time you can't get them for $350 anymore, either.

 

[springfield art]

Totally agree with you

I almost bought an India-made Northwest Trade Gun but fortune shone upon me and I saw a Curly Gostomsky-made one at local auction and got that. I also believe the hand-wringing about the India-made guns is way over the top.