Pellets By Volume

[rodwha]

I've read how it's is generally considered ideal for patterning to use the same volume of pellets as your powder charge.

Assuming your powder measure set at 75 grns holds a true 75 grns of powder. How much 7 1/2 shot is that?

In essence I'm trying to figure out the powder charge of a 1 1/8 oz shot charge (max projectile weight for a 28 ga).

 

[coloradoclyde]

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/195339/

 

[BrownBear]

I've read how it's is generally considered ideal for patterning to use the same volume of pellets as your powder charge.

My experience is a little different. I use about 10 grains less powder (by volume) than shot with 2f, 20 grains less with 3f, and identical volumes with 1f only. I sure like that 1f with shotguns for best patterns in my guns, as it also lets me use the same measure for both powder and shot.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Personally!, I think a 1 1/8oz payload it too much for 28 gauge....

 

[Scota4570]

To much.......

75gr x 1 1/8 oz is a 12 ga load.

More like 50 or 60gr x 3/4 oz. You have to actually pattern it. Too little powder and is gets too slow. Too much and the pattern goes to heck.

 

[rodwha]

Thanks!

 

[rodwha]

I admit I'm not all that familiar with muzzleloading shotguns but looking at the Lyman max loads it shows 90/110 grns (3/2F) for a 450 grn Maxi.

So that's roughly 1 1/16 oz with a fairly stout powder charge, which is why I figured 1 1/8 or more was reasonable without stressing with over max charges if I reduced the charge, though I assume there is less pressure with shot and wads vs. bore sized conical.

I, too, had figured a bit more volume of pellets to powder as I've read this will typically tighten the group (of course as long as it passes the can test).

I'd certainly like to hear why my proposed load would be too much.

 

[rodwha]

I've read of many claiming they preferred 3F in their larger .54 cal bores. But I've read most people get better patterns from 2F. Why?

I use just 3F in my large caliber revolvers and my .50 cal rifle, and figured I'd like to continue to do so for the sake of ease (buying and carrying one powder). Sometimes you just have to do what you just have to do and would certainly buy/carry 2F if it performed much better. Just use another flask so as not to mix them up.

 

[rodwha]

I've also read a bit about the old British service charges where a 28 ga's load was 55 grns for 3/4 oz and a 14 ga used 82 grns with 1 1/8 oz. Why were these this light compared to a rifles muzzleloader using conicals?

 

[coloradoclyde]

An ounce of shot and a 1 ounce bullet may weigh the same....but the pressures and internal ballistics are different.

I'm curious why you need such a stout charge of 7 1/2 shot in a 28 gauge?

 

[BrownBear]

I've also read a bit about the old British service charges where a 28 ga's load was 55 grns for 3/4 oz and a 14 ga used 82 grns with 1 1/8 oz. Why were these this light compared to a rifles muzzleloader using conicals?

The goal with shot is to keep it all flying as close together as possible. The faster it goes, the more subject it is to dispersion from jostling and irregular shapes. That's why modern alloy shot can be driven so much faster than pure lead. It doesn't deform, and with fillers, it isn't so subject to jostling.

You can test it yourself. Start with a light powder charge under a particular weight of soft lead shot. Then use a little more powder for each successive shot. You'll reach a point that the shot really starts to spread, and it doesn't matter what kind of "wad" you have under it. From what I've seen with my own shooting (and taking the book values for velocities cuzz I've never chronoed my own loads), soft lead shot really goes wonky about the time it breaks the sound barrier. My guns pattern best up until the loads appear to be going somewhere around 1100-1150fps. Then Katie bar the door if I go higher.

 

[George]

An ounce of shot and a 1 ounce bullet may weigh the same....but the pressures and internal ballistics are different.

Say what?

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

Load shift...or compression...increases chamber pressure.....combine that with added weight and you might be pushing the envelope...

I don't subscribe to the "the more shot I put down the barrel the better my chances", philosophy.

Years of trap shooting taught me that a 1 1/8 oz load will do what a 1 3/8 load will do and a 1 oz load will what a 1 1/18th will do....and a 3/4 will do what a 1 ounce will do......

 

[rodwha]

I'm desiring to have a .50 cal Lyman barrel bored to 28 ga for small game hunting and figured since I wasn't constrained by a shell and this barrel gave a max load much higher I could get close to 20 ga performance so as to potentially use for turkey without needing to get them right up to my toes.

 

[rodwha]

I'm at a loss for how lead shot is getting compressed. Apparently I'm misunderstanding.

I'm also at a loss for why the same barrel in .54 cal can handle a 450 grn conical with friction fit and a 90 grn (3F , though I figure those specs are for 2F which would make it 110 grns of powder) charge but upping the standard 28 ga load from 55 grns and 3/4 oz of shot would increase pressures.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I look forward to seeing and hearing about your progress.... :thumbsup:

 

[rodwha]

I've certainly read of outstanding shooters use even a .410 for dove and turkey. So I know it can be done as long as the pattern and velocity are right.

But I'm not outstanding.

Might well find a standardish load will give me 10+ pellets in the kill zone with penetration. I'd be happy enough with 25 yds but would certainly prefer a bit more.

And maybe I'll find it's merely a small game gitter and not much more (smooth barreled .54 for close hogs might be great!).

 

[rodwha]

I'd much prefer to understand what it is I'm looking at. The way I'm seeing it makes sense to me and my logic, but it has left me holding the bag before...

 

[rodwha]

I have many interests that I'd like to jump into and this one made the most sense as it was more useful (want a small cal small game rifle, Uberti Police, new cylinders, etc.).

 

[BrownBear]

I'm at a loss for how lead shot is getting compressed. Apparently I'm misunderstanding.

On ignition the shot at the bottom of the column starts moving before that at the top and gets "squished" by the bottom push and top resistance. That movement is also pushing shot out to the sides. And the bigger the powder charge and heavier the shot load, the worse it gets.

Getcherself some of the high speed photos of shot leaving a bore. They're online. You'll be surprised how many shot you see that are no longer round.

The more of them you can keep round, whether from lighter loads or harder shot, the potentially better your pattern will be. The wandering from all this out-of-round shot gets worse and worse as range stretches too.

Kinda self-defeating to put more and more shot and powder in the bore and get looser and looser patterns as a result.