Penetration and expansion

[Deadeye]

Aspen isn't a hard wood even when it's alive and full of sap but I't think that a .600 pure lead ball
in front of a 100 gr. of 2f at 25 yds. that penetrated 10" of wood would have flattened more than this. It only flattened slightly on the front,
sprue right in the middle of the flat, rest of ball as round as it started. This from my smoothbore Any smaller tree had complete penetration, any larger stopped ball inside.
I guess a .600 ball doesn't need to expand but I expected more than that.

 

[playfarmers]

The lack of expansion must be from the low velosity. A ball from my .50 cal flattens very well even on Deer sized game.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Have you considered that shooting a ball into a relatively solid material like a live tree does not allow much room for the ball to expand? Have you checked its diameter and length? That same ball hitting flesh will probably expand. If it hits a rib, or leg bone, it will definitely expand, in the flesh that follows.

The reason to hunt with such a large diameter round ball is that it does not have to expand to destroy a lot of tissue and cause death quickly by hemorrhage. The great weight of the ball means it will deeply penetrate or pass through most any prey species you may hunt.

 

[Slowpoke]

I'm gonna guess that this ball was cast from hard lead. DE, you cast that ball yourself? I can't image a soft lead ball going through 10 inches of live tree. Of course I rarely shoot 100g our of mine...my smothbore likes 65g of 2F.

 

[Bountyhunter]

Usin wheel weights?

 

[Russianblood]

Usin wheel weights?

He stated pure lead. It sure does show just how powerful these "old guns" can be.

 

[rebel727]

I've had soft lead .58 minies go thru ten inch pine trees with 90 grs. 2f and the ones I've recovered don't flatten much. I've fired them into the ground at point blank range trying to duplicate some original C.W. minies I've dug up and they generally (depending on soil type) go about two feet deep and flatten completely.

 

[Bountyhunter]

Two feet? Geez, that's why I cant find em, I got tired of diggin at about 18 inches........

 

[Leonredbeard]

Deadeye,
How many of them defenseless aspens did you shoot up in making this test. Hee! Hee!
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[riarcher]

The tree huggers are going to love him. :winking:

 

[biliff]

The tree huggers are going to love him. :winking:

Not if they're hugging the tree whilst he's a shooting at it. :rotf:

 

[BS]

This is a test I did earlier this summer.
Link to Penetration Test

This is a soft lead ball [.875] removed from an old Elm tree..........you cans see the little circle on the back, That is the original ball that the lead flowed around expanding.

 

[rebel727]

That's about what a minie fired into the ground at point blank range looks like.

 

[Deadeye]

Nope, SP, it was pure dead soft lead and even though I haven't chronographed it I'd guess it was traveling at least 1300 fps. I've shot some .50 conicals cast of the same lead that at 230 yds. in soft dirt with 90 2F that expanded to
almost .50 cent size. Have never recovered a ball or conical from an animal, always shot thru.
VP, I shoot patterns on trees sometime, never seems to hurt them, yrs. later they seem as healty as ever. Everybody writes on aspens here.
Some big old trees have names and dates back into the 1800s.
That hole was so straight thru that I was able to push an old aluminum arrow straight thru the hole and out the other side of the tree.
Still don't understand the little expansion. I just measured the ball and it's .696 across and flattened to .426 and weights 320.5 grs. which is what a .600 pure lead ball weights.???

 

[berickson]

so i was out playing with my trade gun and thought about breaking a shot load, and dropping in a maxi ball to see how it would shoot.
shot at an old stump about 25 yards away. i was trying to see where it hit, when a 20 foot high 4" sapling just on the left of the stump, groaned a bit and fell over.
my trade gun shoots a bit to the left with a maxi ball. LMAO! :rotf:

 

[musketman]

Still don't understand the little expansion.

Maybe the problem is with the tree of choise, perhaps the ball would have expanded better if shot through a Utah Juniper or a Blue Spruce... :hmm:

 

[faw3]

Next time just for he heck of it try less powder and a tree a bit smaller, and lets see what happens, Ive been shooting nothing but 600 and 610 the last month and they do some :shake: real strange stuf, I didnt think one would go thru a old iron tub and it sure did but same load wouldnt thru a old thinner reffer door??? Fred :hatsoff:

 

[rebel727]

This may be getting kinda off topic since it's not about smoothbores but it's an interesting sideline to the main topic.
I've dug up many C.W, minie balls. A few of them were completely flattened like the roundball in the pics. I've fired hundreds of minies at all kinds of stuff and recovered a lot of them(trying to get an idea what some of my originals might have hit) but never recovered one of mine flattened like that. The closest was ones fired into the ground at point blank range. My minies are close to the originals with the exception of being molded instead of swaged so they have a flat nose instead of pointed. I increased my charge from 70 grs. to 80 and was closer. An increase to 90 grs. duplicated them exactly. So I'm assuming modern bp is weaker than the bp of 140 years ago. Doesn't seem to matter what type of ground or soil conditions, the only difference there is depth.

 

[faw3]

This is just a WAG but how about they didnt have as pure as now lead?? My battlefield minies are hard, and wet sand will really stop or flatten out most things shot into it. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[rebel727]

It's possible. Do they flatten so completely that all you can see of the skirt is a circle imprinted on the back side?