Percussion gun kits

[woodse guy]

I would like to look at get a kit and doing some of the work myself. Who makes a good beginners to maybe the next step higher kit. I have looked at TOTW and Dixie any place else.

 

[David W.]

I would like to look at get a kit and doing some of the work myself. Who makes a good beginners to maybe the next step higher kit. I have looked at TOTW and Dixie any place else.

I've personally never owned one (Lyman), but the Lyman and T/C kits are about 90% finished. Kits that come from TOW require more finishing, more tools, and a little more skill.

 

[BrownBear]

For a starter kit I'd watch for the phrase "in the white" if you move beyond kits from Lyman, TC or traditions. I'd clarify that with Dixie too, if you order from them. What it means is that the gun is fully assembled, and all you have to do is remove some excess wood if you want, smooth the metal, and finish the wood and metal.

Lots of companies like TOW sell what really amount to parts sets. You have to do some degree of fitting before the gun can be fully assembled. That's where lots of beginners get into trouble, even though they could do a credible job with everything else.

Another place to look is Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading. As you look at their models, notice that most are available as finished guns, as in-the-white, and as kits. You'll see a difference in price for each version, too.

My pick of a "beginner" kit? Lyman. The price is moderate and the guns are excellent if the style suits. Next up the scale with lots more options in style is a TVM in-the-white gun.

 

[woodse guy]

The metal work I think that I could handle pretty good. Fitting the metal to the stock I can handle. Having to remove a lot of wood on the stock to get it to fit me makes me a little nervous.

 

[BrownBear]

Unless your length of pull is less than standard, you don't need to worry about making a Lyman fit you. The wood to remove is only to make it slimmer and a little lighter if you want. I know guys who don't bother- just sand and finish- and the results are pretty credible. I had a factory GPR in the house at the same time I built my first kit. I would have had to pull maybe 1/16" off here and there to match that. But I went quite a bit further and really slimmed mine down. Just a taste thing.

Ideally, before you go the GPR route, try to handle a factory version. Better yet, if you decide on one, see if you can borrow a factory rifle to have on hand for comparison. Not necessary, but it will be reassuring to have it to look at and compare now and then.

 

[woodse guy]

How much work is there in a kit from TOTW on removing wood.

 

[Zonie]

The "kits" from the main suppliers like TOTW, Pecatonica River, Muzzleloader Builders' Supply and similar companies consists of a roughed out stock with the general shape of the "school" with the barrel channel, the ramrod hole and the lock mortice roughed in.
All of the surfaces of the stock will require wood to be removed by filing, rasping or sanding.

The lock and set trigger will be finished but will need to have the necessary holes located, drilled and threaded for the fasteners.

Many barrels are not breeched so the breech plug will have to be installed.*
Many barrels will need to be drawfiled to remove the cutter marks from the exterior.

The sight dovetails in the barrel do not exist so they must be milled or cut in with a hack saw and a triangular file*.

The screw holes in the stock do not exist so they will have to be located and drilled in the wood.

All of the other metal parts are rough castings which will need to be filed, sanded and polished.

All of the parts like the trigger, the trigger guard, the butt plate*, the nose cap, the ramrod thimbles, the sights and the sideplate that goes on the opposite side from the lock will have to be inlet into the stocks wood.

The builder will have to finish the barrel channel, inlet the barrels breech plug tang, install the barrel underlugs* and drill the pin holes that will hold the stock onto the barrel.

The butt plate usually is not installed* so the stock will have to be cut and shaped to match the metal butt plate positioning it so that the length of pull is correct for the new owner.

The barrels vent hole (flintlock) or percussion drum will have to be located in the barrel, drilled and threaded for installation.

If a patchbox is desired (and almost all Kentucky longrifles had them) it will have to be located and inlet into the wood. The patchbox cavity will need to be created.

After installing all of the hardware the stock will need to be sanded and smoothed.
If it is Maple it should be stained and then oiled.

The metal parts like the barrel (and the trigger guard and buttplate if they are made from steel) will need to be browned, blued, polished or aged depending on what is wanted.

A regular kit from a major gun producer like Traditions, Lyman or Pedersoli will take the average guy 15-30 hours to finish.

The advanced "kits" from the suppliers will take anywhere from 120-180 hours of work to finish.

I don't want to scare anyone away from building one of the advanced kits but I think it is only fair to tell them about what they are getting into.

Another approach with these advanced guns is to look for suppliers who will supply the guns "in the white". That means they are assembled but the stock is not finish sanded, stained or oiled and the barrel is not browned.
After seeing what is required to build one of these rifles/fowlers it is understandable that the "in the white" guns will cost more than the box of parts does but they do save the newcomer the tasks of doing all of the necessary work.

* Things marked with an asterisk (*) are often offered by the suppliers for a fee.
Breeching the barrel and having the sight dovetails cut are two things I recommend for the first time builder.

 

[smokin45]

.myself i think a man takes extra time and effort
can produce a well piece of art,,the key take your
time i have did a couple that was beatifull
thanks

 

[woodse guy]

Thanks Zonie I want a kit that has the sights dovetailed in as well as the breech plug done.

 

[Zonie]

Speaking of having the sight dovetails cut by the supplier, they usually want to also install the breech plug at the same time.

This is needed because until the breech plug is installed there is no way of knowing which flat on the barrel is going to be the top flat.
Here is a link to Pecatonica Rivers prices http://www.longrifles-pr.com/services.shtml

Some have asked before about the prices for "cut and crown the barrel" and for "drill and tap barrel for breechplug".
Both of these things are only needed if the barrel is going to be shortened or cut off at the breech.
New barrels already have the breech plug threads and crown in them unless you ask the supplier to cut the barrel off.
Also, Rice barrels come with a breech plug already installed so if one buys one of his barrels they will not need to have the barrel breeched.

 

[ryzman]

im building a lyman now and its not easy. the amount of sanding and filing the metal takes weeks of work to make perfect. sure you can slap it together quick but if you want something to be proud of then it takes much longer. i wanted a good shooter and a kit that was cheap so lyman covered all those bases... good luck

 

[woodse guy]

I found a kit at Dixie it's a Traditions St. Louis hawken with a 1 in 48 twist barrel. How are the Traditions rifles any good. I think this is a good barrel for PRB but not sure. Can some one give a little information thanks.