Percussion Hammer Cam (Divot)?

[M. De Land]

Ok sir, I'm sorry you don't hear the "clicks" that well and believe me, I'm becoming more and more aware of my "diminishing" hearing ( so is my Wife !! Yikes!!) but, they are a tell tale of "what / when" is going on. They didn't set a bunch of parts out in front of some "assemblers" and say "make these work". There is a definite build /correct timing sequence for the Colt action. It's spelled out really well in the Kuhnhausen book ( complete with "clicks").

With a SAA ( 4 clicks), you can "see" the clicks.
1st - safety notch = trigger moves forward.
2nd - half cock notch = trigger moves forward again.
3rd - bolt drops = you can see it "drop" on the cylinder.
4th - full cock notch = trigger moves forward AND the bolt falls in the notch simultaneously.

The exact same thing happens with the cap gun minus the safety notch . . . ( 3 clicks). That's why all Colts from the factory sound the same . . . they have "correct" timing . . . So do all mine and these I've set up.

The bolt dropping in an open-top can't be seen so the visual is -
View attachment 294853

and lockup is -
View attachment 294858

The notch is on the left side of the hammer slot/left recoil shield cut at drop, on the ring of that line at full cock/ lockup.
(That's for a six shooter)

Mike

I didn't mean the click event order of operation I meant their exact timing sequence between each event is what depends on tolerance and fit. As was mentioned some are so close together they sound like one, that is if you can hear them at all. My point was that fit and finish of parts in proper order for function reliability and longevity is the goal and can be established without hearing clicks.
Longer or shorter hand length, early or late bolt drop, ratchet teeth fit to hand nose,strength of trigger spring, bolt lateral slop and uniform cylinder notch placement, notch fit to bolt, window width clearance to bolt fit etc. All will effect click timing sequence and are individual to each gun.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Ok sir, I'm sorry you don't hear the "clicks" that well and believe me, I'm becoming more and more aware of my "diminishing" hearing ( so is my Wife !! Yikes!!) but, they are a tell tale of "what / when" is going on. They didn't set a bunch of parts out in front of some "assemblers" and say "make these work". There is a definite build /correct timing sequence for the Colt action. It's spelled out really well in the Kuhnhausen book ( complete with "clicks").

With a SAA ( 4 clicks), you can "see" the clicks.
1st - safety notch = trigger moves forward.
2nd - half cock notch = trigger moves forward again.
3rd - bolt drops = you can see it "drop" on the cylinder.
4th - full cock notch = trigger moves forward AND the bolt falls in the notch simultaneously.

The exact same thing happens with the cap gun minus the safety notch . . . ( 3 clicks). That's why all Colts from the factory sound the same . . . they have "correct" timing . . . So do all mine and those I've set up.

The bolt dropping in an open-top can't be seen so the visual is -
View attachment 294853

and lockup is -
View attachment 294858

The notch is on the left side of the hammer slot/left recoil shield cut at drop, on the ring of that line at full cock/ lockup.
(That's for a six shooter)

Mike

Mike this is what I see when I operate my revolver.
With my 1861 ( 4 clicks), WHAT I "see" in clicks.
1st - half cock notch = trigger moves forward .
2nd – Bolt "drops" on the lead-in trough of cylinder notch = trigger moves reward.
3rd –As the bolt drops in cylinder notch = trigger moves forward.
4th - full cock notch = trigger moves reward.
What is your diagnosis?
I must have something out of time BC of the 4 clicks.

 

[Curtis Lee]

On my other 1861
With my 1861 ( 3 clicks), WHAT I "see" in clicks.
1st - half cock notch = trigger moves forward .
2nd – Bolt "drops" on the lead-in trough of cylinder notch = trigger moves reward.
3rd –As the bolt drops in cylinder notch it hits full cock simultaneously = trigger moves forward.

 

[45D]

On my other 1861
With my 1861 ( 3 clicks), WHAT I "see" in clicks.
1st - half cock notch = trigger moves forward .
2nd – Bolt "drops" on the lead-in trough of cylinder notch = trigger moves reward.
3rd –As the bolt drops in cylinder notch it hits full cock simultaneously = trigger moves forward.

This one is correct.

With the other one, you need to stretch the hand. I believe what you think is bolt dropping in notch is actually the trigger reaching full cock ( trigger moves forward), further movement of the hammer rotates the cyl to lockup ( trigger moves back) . When the trigger finds a notch, it moves forward not backwards.

 

[Curtis Lee]

OK I have a couple of new replacement hands. I am just going to try one of them. They are from different suppliers and look different.
I also have a 2 fingered hand from Krist. But someone stated they are not for beginners.

 

[45D]

OK I have a couple of new replacement hands. I am just going to try one of them. They are from different suppliers and look different.
I also have a 2 fingered hand from Krist. But someone stated they are not for beginners.

They're only for a 5 shot cylinder not a 6. Use one of the single fingered hands.

 

[Curtis Lee]

The seller at Krist said the one he sent was for my1861. Live and learn?

 

[Joemolf]

Darn I have that book someone on the forum recommended it. I should try reading it again. Though I will eventually have one of the pros do the Colt for me as I’m still dealing with concentration issues from covid and those darn vaccines. I’m a fan of the 1851; what a work of art in my eye. Great post mind you!

 

[Joemolf]

They're only for a 5 shot cylinder not a 6. Use one of the single fingered hands.

They work I just dropped mine in i actually bought a spare i will never use. They are expensive but at least they are made of quality steel nicely finished. Seriously maybe I got lucky. I never studied it closely and not sure if both hand are in play or even supposed to be. I spoke to a gentleman named Bill Kelly over there I think he does some of the work or did. I was actually going to have him due one of my revolvers but things got in the way.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Darn I have that book someone on the forum recommended it. I should try reading it again. Though I will eventually have one of the pros do the Colt for me as I’m still dealing with concentration issues from covid and those darn vaccines. I’m a fan of the 1851; what a work of art in my eye. Great post mind you!

Hi Joe; I have the same issues and never had the 19 or any of the Jabs. Good Luck. Stay safe.

 

[45D]

They work I just dropped mine in i actually bought a spare i will never use. They are expensive but at least they are made of quality steel nicely finished. Seriously maybe I got lucky. I never studied it closely and not sure if both hand are in play or even supposed to be. I spoke to a gentleman named Bill Kelly over there I think he does some of the work or did. I was actually going to have him due one of my revolvers but things got in the way.

I've never tried them in a 6 shooter before. If they work, great!!

Personally, I'd rather save them for conversions but, I have a pattern and make them so . . .

Good on ya!!

 

[45D]

They work I just dropped mine in i actually bought a spare i will never use. They are expensive but at least they are made of quality steel nicely finished. Seriously maybe I got lucky. I never studied it closely and not sure if both hand are in play or even supposed to be. I spoke to a gentleman named Bill Kelly over there I think he does some of the work or did. I was actually going to have him due one of my revolvers but things got in the way.

Yessir, Bill Kelly is a good friend and we talk often!!

Mike

 

[Joemolf]

Yessir, Bill Kelly is a good friend and we talk often!!

Mike

Yes very nice man like many here took time to explain things. Just happy to help!

 

[Joemolf]

The seller at Krist said the one he sent was for my1861. Live and learn?View attachment 294917

That’s funny about the time I purchased mine and 35 is right for me they were a great buy worked in one of the 36 Caliber Revolvers I have. Plan on putting them in the others if I ever take them out again. I have to do that as I have cap’s that need to be used. Then I went to sleep for a while with them. All mine shoot but are not 200 shot reliable like discussed earlier. Take care

 

[Joemolf]

Hi Joe; I have the same issues and never had the 19 or any of the Jabs. Good Luck. Stay safe.

Thanks Curtis! I was fine up until i got covid in late 2020. Initially I was still able to think and not forget but a few months after it hit me hard; I was unable to work. My doctor told me you have similar symptoms as another one of his patients that had covid. Any way I take these Ivermectin concoctions I get from the Front line doctors coalition. Initially it helped very much. But then I would rebound. I’m on the concoction right now for another two weeks. I have a few strikes against me I’m probably predisposed to dementia as my mom developed it in her early Eighties. I’m turning 66 now and unlike you I’ve had COVID 3 times now. After each bout it becomes harder to clear the fog in my head. my dad is 92 and doing great God Bless him. I keep my fingers crossed and say my prayers though probably not enough. Thank you for the well wishes! I wish the best for you! Hey I see you’re a F4U Corsair Fan. I myself love WW2 warbirds. My favorite being the Jug simply I worked at FRC or Republic as everyone called on them A10A and my uncle serviced them and my flight Instructor was the President of the P-47 association and a thunderbolt pilot in Europe. I just recently watched the new movie setting is Korea and two pilots one black and one white. Progressed from the Bear Cat to the Corsair. Not bad as I like old aircraft though the story is true they could have done better. But as far as those aviators go black or white I hold them in the highest regard. Take care

 

[Curtis Lee]

Great reply Joe; You see, nothing wrong with your mind. The Corsair is My Favorite WWII plane. I've built several RC kits in the 80's. Not much of a pilot though. My Father in law living with us presently is 97 ,so I follow. The latest news I've heard about "THE19" is something called Long covid. never the less nice talking to you .BE SAFE!

 

[Curtis Lee]

This one is correct.

With the other one, you need to stretch the hand. I believe what you think is bolt dropping in notch is actually the trigger reaching full cock ( trigger moves forward), further movement of the hammer rotates the cyl to lockup ( trigger moves back) . When the trigger finds a notch, it moves forward not backwards

You are correct about my perception of the timing. I lengthened the hand and have it down to 3 clicks. Thanks for the diagnosis. I also order another hammer to rectify the cam problem. I will pay close attention to function and fit as I did with the good pistol. Thanks Again. Curt.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Oh, that is the nose of the hand sliding off the back angle of the tooth at the top of the hammer stroke. As long as the bolt will drop into full notch depth while your putting some tension on the cylinder rotation all is well.
Looking at your chewed up hammer cam though I don't think the adjustment will last long as the bolt finger has grooved it which means it's to soft.

You will be glad to know I have ordered some 5mm HSS HRC 61 stock to make my own cam pin. I plan on drilling the old out as it is integral and press fit with lock-lite a new one. Any hints or issues I should consider?

 

[Curtis Lee]

OH BTW WAY< you where correct the cam pin ware is causing bolt drag on cylinder. Getting worse. So no more functioning until new cam is in. I also order a new hammer and bolt from DGW just in case this goes south.

 

[Joemolf]

OH BTW WAY< you where correct the cam pin ware is causing bolt drag on cylinder. Getting worse. So no more functioning until new cam is in. I also order a new hammer and bolt from DGW just in case this goes south.

Good man Curtis I learned a lot from your post. I ruined a few hammer fiddling with the bolt and trying to understand what was the correct angle on the cam. So in my infamous wisdom I ordered xtras hammer hands and bolts. I stumbled on some of my stock (lol) last week when I was looking at another revolver that I feel like throwing in the garbage and may just to avoid trying to sell it. It was not until I received them and noticed the cam angle was different on each one of them brand new still in the plastic sealed bags. It was then I realized they are not functional interchangeable parts. I have to assume Ubertie must fit file them to get them close. In doing so removing the case hardening essentially making them failures down the road. I mentioned I have a few 1873 rifles without touching the sear or hammer the case hardening is so thin they wear without any polishing. Anyway it seems to be hit or miss I have one that runs beautifully with over a thousand rounds through it. The other two fail regularly; hence I have stock on sears and hammers. I was thinking id send them out to be properly heat treated. Another problem with them is the cam on the lever for the lifter so much guys are sending them out to weld and grind a new cam because you can be waiting a long time for a replacement. Good thing we have guys around (and like you) that can fix them and make these revolers real. Take care!