Percussion Lock Problem

[John W Hughes]

I have a .54 T/C renegade that I was shooting the other day and using # 11 cci caps. I would shoot and no ignition try again and it would go off. I have never had problems with cci caps and this went on for 6 or seven caps.

I then pulled the lock and replaced it with a T/C Hawken lock and fired 8 more caps and no problem.

I'm new to the renegade and shot it about 15 times since January and the hawken 100's of times.
Back 5 or 6 months ago while cleaning the lock plate from the renegade I hit the trigger and the hammer fell on the lock bolster and dented the hammer on the bottom face.(Newbie error not done since)

I fixed the hammer cavity best I could and at times it still holds the spent cap in the cavity where I have to remove it with a small nail.

My question is it the hammer, main spring, both or something else? What is my best option for repair? Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[FishDFly]

Call T/C, that is your best option.

 

[don hepler]

Based,on what you've told us, it sounds like the hammer is not striking the cap with enough force. The lock may simply be gummed up with old oil and grease. Also, the bridle plate screws may be over-tightened and binding the tumbler. If you don't feel comfortable taking the lock apart, just spray it with gun scrubber (or similar product) and re-oil. It still could be a problem with the nipple, and the Hawken lock is striking with more force, for what ever reason. I'd try cleaning and snugging down the screws, first.

 

[necchi]

Common problem with the TC's, it's the Fly detent. A little metal thingy that allows the sear to skip past the half cock.
This is a Lyman lock but it's the same thing;

Good advice above;

If you don't feel comfortable taking the lock apart, just spray it with gun scrubber (or similar product) and re-oil.

And tighten those two screws that hold the plate in, if they get just the tinyest bit loose thyat Fly will wobble in there and jam things up.

 

[bpd303]

How did you "fix the hammer cavity"? If you ground it out with a Dremel you changed the striking distance relative to the cone and the hammer is not contacting the cap reliably (ask me how I know).

 

[John W Hughes]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I will try cleaning the lock first and re-oil as suggested along with tightening the screws.

As for fixing the hammer cavity, I took a small flat head screw driver and lightly tapped the edge back down.

I did use the same nipple in the barrel to see if that was the problem and I figured that it must be working because after changing the lock every thing worked as it should.

I will keep everyone posted.

 

[Billnpatti]

The first thing to try is a good thorough cleaning of the lock to get rid of any crud that may be preventing the hammer from moving freely. an excellent product for lock cleaning is either automobile carburetor cleaner in a spray can or automobile brake cleaner in a spray can. Both are excellent cleaners but be sure to spray your lock outdoors and away from your wife's flowers. The stuff is not only tough on dirt, it is tough on plants as well. I spray mine in the driveway. It is also an excellent paint and varnish remover so don't get it on your stock. Remove the lock, take it to your driveway and thoroughly flush out all of the built up crud from your lock. If you have compressed air, blow it out until it is dry. If you don't have compressed air, not a problem, just let it lay and dry. The stuff evaporates quickly. It not only removes all of the crud, but it also removes all of the oil from your lock. So, lightly oil your lock and see how it works. If the problem was crud in your lock, problem solved! You will also want to check the bridle screws to be sure that they are just lightly snug and that your fly is moving freely in the tumbler. If nothing is rubbing or overly tightened, you should be good to go. With the lock clean and oiled and all screws properly tightened, one other thing to check is be sure that you have a #11 nipple and not a musket nipple. If somebody replaced the standard #11 nipple with a musket nipple, the #11 cap will not seat properly until it has been hit by the hammer and then will go off on the second try. If this is the case, just replace your nipple. Also if the nipple has been deformed from a misinformed previous owner who has dry fired the gun and allowed the hammer to strike the nipple with no cap on it enough times the end of the nipple will be deformed and prevent the cap from being properly seated. This, too, can cause the symptoms that you mentioned. This can be remedied by one of two things. The cheapest is to chuck the threaded end in an electric drill and turn it on slowly. then take a fine file and dress down the end of the nipple just until you have removed the flare caused by the nipple being struck by the hammer. This requires a bit of patience and careful filing while the nipple turns in the drill. The easiest method of repair is to simply replace the nipple if it is deformed.

Lastly, you can check to see if the hammer is striking the top of the nipple squarely by applying a bit of lipstick to a Q-tip and applying a light coating in the hammer face. Then gently lower the hammer onto the nipple and press it down hard with your fingers. Cock your gun so that you can get your finger in between the hammer and the nipple. Wrap a small piece of paper around your finger and press it carefully onto the nipple. If you get as nice complete circle, your hammer face is striking the nipple squarely. If you get a partial circle or even just a dot, it indicates that the hammer face is not striking the nipple squarely. Before making any changes, repeat this test several times making sure to apply an even coat of lipstick to the hammer face but not too much. Make sure that the paper around your finger does not touch the nipple until you press it down onto the nipple. You may even have to remove the hammer before pressing the paper onto the nipple to get it out of the way so you can get a good impression. If the hammer is not striking the nipple squarely, you may need to replace the hammer if the present one is damaged in any way. You may be able to take it to a qualified gunsmith and have the hammer bent until it strikes the nipple squarely. I have a gun where the hammer did not strike the nipple squarely when I got it and I was able to make the necessary adjustment to the hammer face with a Dremel tool and a small grinding stone. It is tedious work and required a lot of fitting using lip stick just I explained to you. Unless you have a Dremel tool and the delicate touch and patience to do the job correctly, I don't recommend attempting it. If you are a gunsmith, machinist, die maker, artist, dentist, etc. then you obviously have what it takes to do that kind of job. Go for it. Otherwise, leave it to the professionals.

 

[necchi]

Or he could just,
oil the lock and tighten the screws.

 

[Billnpatti]

Yep, said that. :thumbsup:

 

[necchi]

Yeah, so did I, but you didn't read that did ya?

 

[stinkyfeet]

Could be as other describes as well or it could be as simple as a rounded down nipple and the cap is not sitting all the way down with the first lock and seating on the first hit then firing on the second. If the spring was stiffer and hit harder with the replacement lock this might cause it to fire better with the second lock. But there is no difference between the renegade and hawkens lock, they are the same lock used on almost all TC rifles. Just offering advice :idunno: I doubt its the caps

 

[bpd303]

Here's a thought, make sure where you fixed the hammer, it's not dragging on the side of the cap. You shouldn't have to use anything to get the spent cap out of the cavity, sounds like it's too tight. Keep us posted when you find out the problem it should be interesting.

 

[Billnpatti]

Sure I read it but when you said it, it wasn't nearly so eloquent as when I said it. :blah: :haha: :haha:

 

[necchi]

Well I admit I didn't bother reading all of yours, the roughly 850 rambling words in two paragraphs made it hard to discern just what you meant.

 

[Billnpatti]

Wow! I am amazed you know numbers as big as 850 let alone being able to read that many words. Nyah! Nyah! Nyah! :slap: :haha: :haha:

P.S. wish I had that little "Moon" man to return to you.

 

[John W Hughes]

Thanks again for the responses. I checked the bridle screws on the lock plate and they were tight.

I removed the screws and cleaned the bridle and reinserted the screws. Everything seemed clean but I plan on getting some carb cleaner tomorrow and will clean every thing.

If that doesn't do it then I plan on trying new nipple which I have a spare for and if that doesn't fix the problem I am sending it to T/c for repair.

 

[jerrywh]

You can fix that by putting a spacer behind the mainspring so the hammer will hit harder.
also-when you put the cap on the nipple let the hammer down on the cap gently and push the cap all the way down on the nipple. Often the cap doesn't seat and if the mainspring is a little weak it won't fire.

 

[Baby Huey]

You could try using a Dremel or other cutter to make a notch in the front of the hammer cavity. This facilitates cap removal. Don't cut the rear!! That's too close to your eyes. Use an emery cloth or similar to decrease the diameter of the nipple you are currently using so the cap seats itself better. Please make sure you utilize the simpliest "fix" first and enjoy the experimentation.