Percussion or Flintlock?

[user 36911]

Its been said around, that your first one may not be a flinter, but your last one will be.

Not for me it won't.

 

[sawyer04]

I was handed down a flint lock in 1960, I was 11 years old and got many squirrel and rabbits, yotes and fox. It was a 40 caliber, but had it's own mold, not exactly .040. It could be cantankerous and belligerently bull headed, but all I had, it taught me how to use it. Graduated high school and purchased a reproduction Hawken, Thompson Center cap lock. Made hunting a little easier, but not near as much fun, like the single shot rifle I purchased, just wasn't what I was used too.
Cap locks are great until there is no caps, and require more to carry. Progress to flint lock, I have never progressed to cap locks yet, even though I sleeplessly own some.
I think you will have a very good experience regressing to a flint lock, patience, advise and good equipment, it will be a joy.

 

[hanshi]

I consider it over at the last rendezvous and that was 1840. It doesn't have to be at it's peak to consider it still going. Besides i'm not just into what they did during beaver trapping but what they did when it was over too.

Well, it sure ain't over 'till it's over.

 

[BP Addict]

So percussion guns didn’t show up on the scene until the bitter end of the “mountain man” era.

It's my understanding that folks near the settlements would have progressed to the Percussion system as caps would have been readily available. The Frontier however, was a different story. If you ran out of caps there, your gun became a club.

 

[BP Addict]

Not really. It went to 1840. The whole thing wasn't that long.

The point is, mountain men used the Hawken and it's PC to use one.

I would hazard a guess that they would have used a Trade Gun as they weren't as expensive. I also read some where that the Hawken Brothers only made something like 450 guns. I'm sure there were more Trappers than that.

 

[oncewas]

I would hazard a guess that they would have used a Trade Gun as they weren't as expensive. I also read some where that the Hawken Brothers only made something like 450 guns. I'm sure there were more Trappers than that.

But with figures like John Johnston, Kit Carson, Jim Bridger, Hugh Glass and Theodore Roosevelt just to name a few of the men of the west who carried Hawken rifles I think it’s safe to say those that could afford them did.

 

[oncewas]

I'd like to own a flintlock because if I don't I think I'll be missing out on a unique experience. But that being said I won’t quit shooting my GPR just because it’s percussion cap. I love shooting it and with a flintlock I’ll be able to shoot and enjoy both.

I personally enjoy the banter as long as no one is taking it serious. It’s all black powder no matter how we light it.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

I was very, very fortunate, because at 17 years old in 1971, I purchased a flintlock longrifle from Golden Age Arms Company in Ohio. I had been fascinated with the French & Indian War period, had been reading Muzzle Blasts magazine for about 5 years, and never thought twice about whether to purchase a flintlock vs a percussion rifle.

In those days it was mostly the Bud Siler flintlock, and most builders assembled their own locks. The GAA Co. sub-contracted out their longrifle builds, so I never knew who built my rifle. In 1971 I paid $330.00 for that .45 caliber, flintlock, brass-mounted, Lancaster-style longrifle. It was very accurate with its Douglas barrel, far more accurate than I could shoot on most any given day.

The lock worked wonderfully, never giving me a moment's problems. In the years I owned it, I only had a few misfires/hangfires which were directly due to a break in my regular shooting procedures.

This is what I did in 1971, and continued to do up until I stopped shooting in the early '90's.

1. Shoot original load

2. Blow down barrel until smoke stops coming out of touch hole

3. Place hammer on half cock, with frizzen forward in fired position

4. Measure powder, and pour down bore

5. Place spit patch, or greased patch material across crown of barrel

6. Place lead ball on patch, and push as far as possible into bore

7. Use short starter to rap tightly patched ball approximately 6" down into bore

8. Remove ramrod from pipes in stock, and choking up on the rod, use short strokes to seat patched ball firmly onto powder charge

9. Gently bounce ramrod several times onto ball to insure that it's fully seated

10. Return ramrod to pipes under barrel in stock

11. Clean pan of lock with thumb (piece of old T-shirt)

12. Carefully wipe face/edge of flint to remove any soot/oily residue, making sure the flint is still sharp, and aligned correctly----- Replace flint if necessary

13. Take non-ferrous (hard copper) touch hole pick, and vigorously poke channel into powder charge, making positively sure that the touch hole is unobstructed

14. Prime pan with fffg powder, same thing being used in main charge

15. Close frizzen

16. Move to firing line

17. Place hammer on full cock, pull trigger, rifle goes off 99.9999999% of the time, and the ball goes where it's supposed to, if you do your part

All the above takes less time to perform than it does to read it. I figured all of it out, without a mentor, on my own, no internet, only Muzzle Blasts magazine, and The Lyman Black Powder Handbook. I know that blowing down the barrel is frowned upon now, but in 1971 it was accepted practice, and it works.

 

[French Colonial]

I shot muzzleloaders for years, all flint rifles after a couple of years of percussion and was taught to blow down the barrel. Got hooked on Black powder cartridge silhouette shooting for a few years and guess what, used blow tubes to blow down the barrels. Keeps the fouling soft and the accuracy great, you do not blow down the barrel or not enough in dry climates and accuracy goes south in a hurry. Now I am back to Muzzleloaders and sorry, I am going to blow down the barrel...because it works. Buy a flinter with a good vent liner and it will not disappoint.

 

[user 36911]

I would hazard a guess that they would have used a Trade Gun as they weren't as expensive. I also read some where that the Hawken Brothers only made something like 450 guns. I'm sure there were more Trappers than that.

Nobody is claiming that every trapper had a Hawken. How many would have to own one for it to be PC? Just one works for me but i'm sure it was way more than that.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

The last rendezvous was in 1840, and the beaver fur trade started dying off pretty quickly around the same time. There were a lot of Hawkens made long after 1840. And, not many mountain men carried a Hawken, because it was a PREMIUM gun with a price to match. I would guess that ALL mountain men wanted a Hawken, but my estimate is that only 10-15% of them actually ever owned one, at ANY time in their lives, which would include long after age kept them from ever returning to the mountains.

 

[oncewas]

I would hazard a guess that they would have used a Trade Gun as they weren't as expensive. I also read some where that the Hawken Brothers only made something like 450 guns. I'm sure there were more Trappers than that.

I think the American Long Rifle was used by a lot more mountain men than the Trade gun for its range and accuracy. Plus if Hawken made 100 rifles in 1850 alone I think they may have made more than 450.

 

[user 36911]

The last rendezvous was in 1840, and the beaver fur trade started dying off pretty quickly around the same time. There were a lot of Hawkens made long after 1840. And, not many mountain men carried a Hawken, because it was a PREMIUM gun with a price to match. I would guess that ALL mountain men wanted a Hawken, but my estimate is that only 10-15% of them actually ever owned one, at ANY time in their lives, which would include long after age kept them from ever returning to the mountains.

My persona is a hunter for a brigade and after the fur trade era it would be a hunter for a fort. So, my gun wouldn't be just for protection like most trappers but a tool I made money with. I would have scraped up the $25 to buy a Hawken.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Not for me it won't.

Oh Pashaw!
Come to the darkside... We have cookies!

 

[user 36911]

Oh Pashaw!
Come to the darkside... We have cookies!

I don't have anything against flintlocks. I've had them and they were fun to hunt. However, the gun I like the most and use is the half stock Hawken. There never was a half stock Hawken flintlock. Only the full stock had a flintlock. So, I have no choice but to use a caplock if I want to be PC.

 

[Rudyard]

I don't like heavy Hawken's . But I made two for patrons who did , One bog standard cap the other half stock flint . I have Biards books but I would,nt say boldly" There where No such gun "or any such bold statement (Not that I overly care ) .Because as soon as you state " There was no this or that" in the study of guns . Sure as eggs is eggs One will pop up to confound you . I only write this not to claim anything about Hawken,s it would be as true of any antigue ever made . That why real experts call them selves '.Students of arms. ect '. I know some I don't claim to be one the student bit yes not the expert bit .
Rudyard

 

[user 36911]

I don't like heavy Hawken's . But I made two for patrons who did , One bog standard cap the other half stock flint . I have Biards books but I would,nt say boldly" There where No such gun "or any such bold statement (Not that I overly care ) .Because as soon as you state " There was no this or that" in the study of guns . Sure as eggs is eggs One will pop up to confound you . I only write this not to claim anything about Hawken,s it would be as true of any antigue ever made . That why real experts call them selves '.Students of arms. ect '. I know some I don't claim to be one the student bit yes not the expert bit .
Rudyard

Yes, but i've been saying it for years in front of Hawken experts and nobody has ever produced even a picture of one. Let alone a gun.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I started out in blackpowder shooting a percussion, using pyrodex. Just didnt feel right, so I bought a Lyman GPR flintlock. After one shot, I was hooked and never shot the percussion again. I now have 4 flintlocks. The percussion gun is a safe queen and only comes out if somebody needs a loner gun for our early muzzleloader season.

 

[Rudyard]

Yes, but i've been saying it for years in front of Hawken experts and nobody has ever produced even a picture of one. Let alone a gun.

You clearly are a Hawken devotee Far be it that I should question your findings. In general Ide say I had a point but in this particular I must except your findings .
Regards Rudyard

 

[user 36911]

You clearly are a Hawken devotee Far be it that I should question your findings. In general Ide say I had a point but in this particular I must except your findings .
Regards Rudyard

It's too bad too. I'd prefer to use a flintlock. However, i'd hear that little voice in my head say i'm using a gun that never existed. I wish that voice would shut up sometimes.