Percussion or Flintlock?

[oncewas]

Oncewas, I believe that just about everyone starts out with a percussion, then after a time they progress on to a
flint lock . Not because its better but because its more of a challenge , function , at least that is why I progressed
towards flint. I still shoot percussion though, and enjoy both.
gunny

I understand your reasoning. And I'm going that way also. I just need to wait until June 1st when I get paid then I'm ordering a Kibler SMR I believe in .36 unless I change my mind and go for a .40.

 

[user 36911]

Challenge is in the hunt. Not in how the powder is ignited.

 

[SOLANCO]

I have osteoarthritis in both shoulders necessitating a low-recoiling rifle, so I understand what MtnMan is talking about. OTOH, I don't want to carry a heavy rifle weighing more than 7 pounds, for the exact same reasons, the osteoarthritis. I prefer to be on the ground moving, as opposed to stationary in a blind, so the all-up weight of the rifle is important.

I have settled on a .45 caliber flintlock, what I first started with back in 1971, at age 17. If I lived where MtnMan did, and needed to hunt elk, then I would have to rethink my caliber choice, move up to a short-barreled, .58 caliber flintlock, and install a Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad on the buttstock. I would do this regardless of how it looked, because I live in the present, the technology would allow me to shoot a .58 (to include the necessary practice), and I love flintlocks.

Living in the past, to the point where I stop shooting and hunting because I don't want to combine 18th Century & 21st Century technology, seems a bit absurd to me. So, I will combine a modern 4140CM steel barrel with a CNC Jim Kibler lock, basic walnut stock, recoil pad, sling swivel bases, and a modern sling.

I come to muzzle loading and black powder from the unmentionable world. My last decades there were spent in double guns and bird hunting. I learned some things there which have to do with recoil. First was gun fit. An ill fitting gun will make recoil more difficult to deal with. Next was gun mount. If you are holding the gun properly and pulling the butt into the pocket in your shoulder you minimize recoil. A poor gun mount can give your gun room to slam back into you. A proper mount will only let the butt push you. Lastly is cartridge, or in our case, load. Put simply, to help minimize recoil do not burn more powder than you have to. I was not a duck or goose hunter. They all now want 3 inch magnums and I think it foolish. For my purposes I have done well with 2.5 inch shells and 2 inch when I can find them.
I am using that same thinking in ML shotguns and so far I am not unhappy.
It may be harder to practice gun mount with an ML. Only because your practice and attention can be interrupted by the ML reloading necessities. If you need gun mount practice do it with an unmentionable.
You will get more mounting and firing done in a practice day and what you learn will be there when you use your ML shotgun.

 

[SOLANCO]

I come to muzzle loading and black powder from the unmentionable world. My last decades there were spent in double guns and bird hunting. I learned some things there which have to do with recoil. First was gun fit. An ill fitting gun will make recoil more difficult to deal with. Next was gun mount. If you are holding the gun properly and pulling the butt into the pocket in your shoulder you minimize recoil. A poor gun mount can give your gun room to slam back into you. A proper mount will only let the butt push you. Lastly is cartridge, or in our case, load. Put simply, to help minimize recoil do not burn more powder than you have to. I was not a duck or goose hunter. They all now want 3 inch magnums and I think it foolish. For my purposes I have done well with 2.5 inch shells and 2 inch when I can find them.
I am using that same thinking in ML shotguns and so far I am not unhappy.
It may be harder to practice gun mount with an ML. Only because your practice and attention can be interrupted by the ML reloading necessities. If you need gun mount practice do it with an unmentionable.
You will get more mounting and firing done in a practice day and what you learn will be there when you use your ML shotgun.

Also from my bird hunting experience with unmentionables: If you are hunting hills, and that is where my favorite bird is found, gun weight is an issue. The difference in following a dog all day with an 8 pound gun versus a six pound gun is profound. And it shows when you get a flush. That 8 is not going to mount as quick and swing as well as the six after hours of toting it.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

I would love to have one of Mike Brooks 20 gauge, Type G, Carolina Trade guns. Because he speced the barrels out with HC profiles & barrel wall thicknesses, they come in at around 6 pounds, 2 ounces, with a 47 3/8" long barrel. He had to go to Bobby Hoyt for the barrels as most others would not make the barrel walls as thin as they were back in the day. Yet, with modern steels the barrels are stronger than anything made in the 18th & 19th Centuries.

 

[Eterry]

But with figures like John Johnston, Kit Carson, Jim Bridger, Hugh Glass and Theodore Roosevelt just to name a few of the men of the west who carried Hawken rifles I think it’s safe to say those that could afford them did.

Hold on....Teddy Roosevelt was born in 1856, so unless he went west in his diapers he didn't have a Hawken.

Its well known he Had his Winchester rifles custom made and engraved, as was his sidearms.

TR was a man of extreme wealth and means and had his rifles custom made and engraved by the manufacturer, and had his hunting outfits Bespoke at Abercrombie and Fitch, and his accoutrements made at Tiffany and Co. As my dad would say "he enjoyed roughing it in comfort."

 

[user 36911]

He didn't need to buy a new one to own one.

 

[11th corps]

I enjoy both. Started out shooting cap revolvers (Ruger Old Army) then CVA and T/C rifles. Eventually inherited several cap pistols-inexpensive kit guns-About 15 years ago I bought my first flint rifle a TC Hawken. Then decided to assemble a T.O.W. trade gun flint. Both types of ignition have their advantages. I am strictly a range shooter. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[oncewas]

Hold on....Teddy Roosevelt was born in 1856, so unless he went west in his diapers he didn't have a Hawken.

Its well known he Had his Winchester rifles custom made and engraved, as was his sidearms.

TR was a man of extreme wealth and means and had his rifles custom made and engraved by the manufacturer, and had his hunting outfits Bespoke at Abercrombie and Fitch, and his accoutrements made at Tiffany and Co. As my dad would say "he enjoyed roughing it in comfort."

From: The Carson-Beale Hawken-Its Identification and Recent History Lee Burke, with the collaboration of Bill Pirie
...The Carson-Beale Hawken is pictured in a book published in 1912, with the statement that Carson gave it to Beale, and Truxtun (Beale's heir) had given it to Theodore Roosevelt, who in turn had given it to the Boone and Crockett Club.

I never said he shot or hunted with it just that he owned it. Which he did.
Article found here:
https://americansocietyofarmscollec...-The-Carson-Beale-Hawken-Its-Identificati.pdf

 

[Eterry]

Your statement said "went west and carried Hawkens", which implied TR took one hunting in the West. Which he may well have done. But in his books that I have read he goes into detail about brand, caliber and description of his arms and I haven't seen a mention of a muzzle loading rifle. And he seemed to prefer using cutting edge technology, and he traveled west in the 1870's, IIRC.

I don't think if he was "Gifted" a Hawken in his later years how that would be Germain to this thread.

But it's your thread so Bully for you, as TR would say.

 

[oncewas]

Your statement said "went west and carried Hawkens", which implied TR took one hunting in the West. Which he may well have done. But in his books that I have read he goes into detail about brand, caliber and description of his arms and I haven't seen a mention of a muzzle loading rifle. And he seemed to prefer using cutting edge technology, and he traveled west in the 1870's, IIRC.

I don't think if he was "Gifted" a Hawken in his later years how that would be Germain to this thread.

But it's your thread so Bully for you, as TR would say.

It was a quote from an article. Not mine. If you really want to nit pick I'll find it for you. I was just trying to make a point that a lot of people used or had Hawkens. It was Kit Carson's gun who gave it to Beale who's heir gave to TR who in turn gave it to the Boone and Crockett Club. Did TR shoot it, hunt with it heck I don't know. But he did own it even if he gave it away.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I like shooting percussion and think I’ll be happy doing that but I’m afraid I’m missing out. So any guidance or advise please feel free to offer.

You are missing out,
I started shooting cap guns in '04, built my flinter in '06, sold all of my cappers by the end of '07 and have honestly never looked back, flintlocks are not just about shooting muzzle loaders, they are a way of life, they are a lifestyle change that is far more than some can understand.

 

[user 36911]

If you like to fiddle. Buy a flintlock.

I came up with a new saying...................................I never have to knap a cap.

 

[pooch156]

Been blessed to own and shoot many amazing rifles in the unmentionable types. Reloaded for them , hunted with them. Guess I got bored with competition , with them. Bored with building unmentionables , and jumped into the m/l rabbit hole . Made many new friends from 1970 forward. Built a couple percussion rifles to start with,shot most everything percussion that would go bang , then, good quality reliable flint locks were available and I never looked back. Awash in most any original flint gun design that could be thought of. 140+ built and never to look back.

I was once a high power recoil junkie. I have taken many deer with high powers. But later in life the "out of the box" accuracy got boring. I built my first flinter 21 rears ago. Never looked back.

 

[JohnnieT]

I was once a high power recoil junkie. I have taken many deer with high powers. But later in life the "out of the box" accuracy got boring. I built my first flinter 21 rears ago. Never looked back.

I was that way for a long time as well. While stationed out west, my favorite unmentionable was a .375 H&H. Never seen a rifle with so many various and commercially available (but expensive!) factory loads. One gun for everything, or so it seemed. But I’ve also had a love of history since childhood, and grandad taught me about muzzleloading at a pretty young age. I’ve always had at least one around, and now I have a couple of his. I guess in the end, the love of history and the challenge of BP won out. And a .54 with a heavy load for bear hurts a lot less than that CZ bolt gun did

 

[Capnball]

I am curious so please bear with me. I am very new to Black powder and muzzle loading. I have two percussion rifles a GPR and a Tradition St. Louis both from kits. I’m very happy with both and plan to purchase or build more rifles. My question is are most members using percussion or flintlock rifles? Is it necessarily a foregone conclusion that one progresses to flintlock? If so, how long before one makes the plunge or did you start out shooting flintlocks? I understand that this may seem like a silly question but I’m going to build or buy a new Pennsylvania rifle in the near future and thought I’d go with percussion but thought it would be maybe more correct to go with flintlock. I like shooting percussion and think I’ll be happy doing that but I’m afraid I’m missing out. So any guidance or advise please feel free to offer.

It's just preference! I have one of each. I don't prefer one over the other. They're both fun to shoot and great to look at. I'll probably buy more. What caliber or type? Anybody's guess but I'm really leaning into a Lyman's GPR in .54 Percussion. I'd also love to own a Kibler Flintlock. I'll be here all day saying what I'd like to own. Just gave fun, shoot what you like and above all, be safe!
Neil