Percussion turn barrel pistol question

[Mcat]

Just picked up this pistol acquired at auction last week. As I suspected the hook in front of the trigger guard that is meant to hold the percussion cap in place has been bent into the trigger guard and allows the cap to fall off. My ignorance of metallurgy leads me to seek advice on the safest way to bend it back in the correct position without breaking it. Heat or no heat etc. Thanks for any help.

 

[64Springer]

Heat first.

Disassemble the pistol first.

That should be intuitive, but folks still ask the question.

 

[Mcat]

Heat first.

Disassemble the pistol first.

That should be intuitive, but folks still ask the question.

How hot? Cherry red?

 

[64Springer]

Cherry is safe.

 

[2 shots]

make sure its empty

 

[64Springer]

make sure its empty

How is that done?

Apply heat to the chamber area?

No bang means it's not loaded?

 

[OLUT]

DO NOT MESS WITH IT.... It is a cap guard to prevent the nipple from being hit. It is NOT meant to hold the cap onto the nipple. The proper size percussion cap will stay on by itself (#10 size, or?)

 

[Mcat]

DO NOT MESS WITH IT.... It is a cap guard to prevent the nipple from being hit. It is NOT meant to hold the cap onto the nipple. The proper size percussion cap will stay on by itself (#10 size, or?)

Thanks. I thought it was meant to protect the cap from being removed from the nipple while in a pocket. The distance being less than the cap length. I didn’t think it was meant to hold the cap on the nipple.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

Thanks. I thought it was meant to protect the cap from being removed from the nipple while in a pocket. The distance being less than the cap length. I didn’t think it was meant to hold the cap on the nipple.

 

[Mcat]

Most every picture of period turn barrel pistols shows the nipple covered close enough to stop the loss of the cap if it were to be loosened. With a trigger guard or not as in the photo below.

 

[mhb]

It is much more likely that the 'guard' is meant to prevent accidental discharge should the pistol be bumped or struck against something in the pocket or elsewhere causing the lower cap to detonate. In every photo of such an arrangement I've seen, the clearance between the 'guard' and the nipple is too great to prevent the cap from separating from the nipple, and a loose cap could fall off the nipple when the barrels were turned, illustrating the need for properly fitting and seated caps.

mhb - MIke

 

[Mcat]

It is much more likely that the 'guard' is meant to prevent accidental discharge should the pistol be bumped or struck against something in the pocket or elsewhere causing the lower cap to detonate. In every photo of such an arrangement I've seen, the clearance between the 'guard' and the nipple is too great to prevent the cap from separating from the nipple, and a loose cap could fall off the nipple when the barrels were turned, illustrating the need for properly fitting and seated caps.

mhb - MIke

Personally,I disagree about the clearance. Here are photos from a google search on turn barrel percussion pistols. That is why I expected the gun I purchased likely had the nipple guard bent since it also appears to be right up against the trigger guard. I’d be happier if I could just leave it alone and not attempt to “straighten” it a bit. This discussion is interesting and helpful. Thanks.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

Most every picture of period turn barrel pistols shows the nipple covered close enough to stop the loss of the cap if it were to be loosened. With a trigger guard or not as in the photo below.

Mcat, that’s what I meant with my “wondering” remark. It wouldn’t make sense to keep the cap loose on the nipple by the nipple guard if it would fall off right away as soon as you turn the barrel, half defeating the purpose of keeping there. Half defeating because if you are paying attention you could reseat the caps before losing it. I believe it was designed as a “cap guard” much like a trigger guard on a conventional pistol, and not as a cap “retainer”. Again, I might be wrong as people did things in the past that made no sense. If I were you I would make sure the caps fit properly (w/o falling off) and enjoy as it is but it is yours so, whatever makes you enjoy it, go for it! They are just tools after all!!

 

[Mcat]

I guess these double barreled side by side percussion pistols have affected my thinking. They are small pocket pistols and when put in half cock, safety, position the hammers remain very low and do not allow the caps to come off the nipple even if they have been jarred loose. The springs are very strong and the guns would definitely fire when put in full cock even if the caps had come loose. There is more than enough spring power to drive a cap home and set off.
The picture shows the bottom pistol in the half cock position.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

I see. Albeit, on this design is a bit different as the hammers in half cock keep the cap in place as you mention, not necessarily by design as nipples vary in length. As you bring to cock, aim and fire the caps will be “assisted” by gravity to remain on the nipples even if loose. On the turn barrels is the opposite, if the “guard” was designed to keep the caps in place the tolerances will have to pretty tight as a loose cap will likely fall off as soon as you try to turn the barrel. I have some Hawken rifles that the hammer will keep the caps in place in half cock but other that do not. BTW, those are some really cute pistols!!

 

[Relic shooter]

In my collecting background I haven't seen any quality gun builder that followed any set plans on turning out a firearm, some were very innovative.
Swivel guns are way out of my ball park of knowledge.
Could be some some swivel gun builders gave that lip a dual purpose, to protect & hold the cap in place ?

 

[Mcat]

In my collecting background I haven't seen any quality gun builder that followed any set plans on turning out a firearm, some were very innovative.
Swivel guns are way out of my ball park of knowledge.
Could be some some swivel gun builders gave that lip a dual purpose, to protect & hold the cap in place ?

That is my belief. They were small pocket pistols subject to a lot of bouncing around. I believe the cap guards also functioned to retain the cap from being dropped into the pocket. Yes, they may have to be reseated on the nipple as you turn the barrel, but at least you don’t have to rummage around in your pocket trying to find it. The important thing is the guard be close enough to the nipple so that the cap can’t get totally off. the pictures I posted in the collage above shows this to be the case. I know that isn’t the case with my pistol which appears to me to have the nipple guard bent back to the trigger guard.

 

[Relic shooter]

That is my belief. They were small pocket pistols subject to a lot of bouncing around. I believe the cap guards also functioned to retain the cap from being dropped into the pocket. Yes, they may have to be reseated on the nipple as you turn the barrel, but at least you don’t have to rummage around in your pocket trying to find it. The important thing is the guard be close enough to the nipple so that the cap can’t get totally off. the pictures I posted in the collage above shows this to be the case. I know that isn’t the case with my pistol which appears to me to have the nipple guard bent back to the trigger guard.

In regards to your question concerning re-positioning the nipple guard, some of the pistol's components started as castings & others were hand forged. Castings don't normally bend, they break, I feel there is a good chance that the nipple guard was hand forged & can be restored to what you feel is it's original location.
That being said, if you lack metal working experience I would seek out someone in your area with the talent to properly tweak the guard.
Relic shooter