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I've only been muzzleloading for 7 months. I started with a Traditions Hawken Flinter. I took my first deer ever with it, then the lock broke. I bought an RPL by L&R and fitted it on with some serious dremmel work (mostly wood). The differnece in quality was astonishing. (The original Traditions lock would spill the primer with the frizzen closed)

Now, I just bought a .36 caliber Pedersoli Frontier Rifle for Squirrel Hunting. It shoots in the same hole at 50 yds and although the lock quality is not on par with the L&R, it is light- years ahead of the Traditions.

I think next time around I will by a custom rifle, however, for the piece of mind that you're getting a good product all the way around. If you look on TOTW in the "guns for sale" link, you'll see great custum guns for around $1,000.
Flintlock muzzleloading is truly something that you need a mentor for, in my experience so far. There is so much to learn.
 
Not pointing fingers or slamming anyone, but often a lot is said about how great something is by folks who are not experienced with the whole spectrum of things, this sometimes sparks a debate on what is or is not a quality product.This happens quite often with the production guns and relitively new shooters, some veteran shooters may chime in on this how it is presented or taken may vary.
 
I have used a Pedersoli Bess since 1985, in those 22 years, the only problem I ever had was that I simply shot the frizzen out and had to replace it, not a fault of the gun, just normal wear and tear. I have no complaints with it at all, it's served me well.
 
Yeah, I get a little touchy sometimes. I share my 40 years of experience of shooting and working on ML guns and every body and their brother with anywhere from two weeks to a a coupla years exerience shooting only one or two production guns jumps in to rave about the great gun they own. The problem is, they have never shot a quality gun. They don't know what a decent gun is. They don't know how much different a properly fitted stock feels from a factory stock. Nor do they know that they don't know. And most of the time they won't listen to someone with real experience.

Sometimes I feel like I'm trying to teach pigs to sing. I'm getting frustrated, and the pigs are becoming annoyed.
J.D.
 
Well to be honest with you you as far as flinters go Pedersoli is about all I know. Infact I didnt even really know that people ,other than the mass produced kind, built them until I joind this forum which was about 6 months or so ago. Before I joined this forum I was the only person I knew that liked shooting flinters or m/lers PERIOD, but if I would have been able to shoot with someone who knew more about this stuff I probably wouldnt own a pedersoli. Next gun I buy will probably be a 32 or 36 in kit form from tow with a siler lock and a GM barrel or some other place like that. I have never held a good gun built by an individual with high quality parts but boy would I love to. I do not pretend to know more than anyone on this forum because that would be a lie :redface: I just thought I would mention that the blue ridge in my opinion was the better of the pedersoli guns. If I have caused any frustration then I am sorry that is not my intent. I am always open to suggestions because more often than not I end up learning something. I have been doing muzzleloading for close to 10 years but to be honest with you every range sesion and every time I have bought a gun it has pretty much been a shot in the dark so I would consider myself on par with someone who has about 6 months or so experience and thats only because I have found this forum, I knew that you pour the powder down followed by a lubed patch wraped around a lead ball but thats about it. Never thought about patch thickness or ball diam. or lube playing an important role in how the gun preforms but I know better now. Anywho I am going to post this so take care and again I am sorry if I have been the cause of or contributed to any frustration.
 
J.D. said:
Sometimes I feel like I'm trying to teach pigs to sing. I'm getting frustrated, and the pigs are becoming annoyed.
J.D.

:thumbsup: Good thing we can all still retain our sense of humour? :hmm:

There are two things I think we all have in common. First is a fascination for ML's. Secondly, and I say this as a newcomer here, a genuine willingness to help others.

I have read all posts with great interestand learned something from them all. All give well meant information. Its up to the reader to decide what to believe - whether its hard won knowledge from 40 years of experience, or a well meant opinion from one years experience, 40 times over. Like everything, caveat emptor ...

Best Wishes

Robbo
 
Okay, once again, just to acknowledge that you and tg both make a good point. I realize it can be frustrating trying to teach pigs to sing, and many people don't know what they don't know.

On the other hand, it gets a little old being constantly lectured by people who assume that everyone who likes a certain gun simply doesn't know any better. Sure, that's the case with some. But, as stated before, many owners who like them (like myself) admit there is better available. That should be your first clue.

I have a heck of a lot of fun with my Mazda. When I ask a question about Mazdas, why do people feel the need to try to convince me that I need a new fully-loaded Suburban or Lexus?

I don't see anyone here "raving" about their Ped. guns, just posting about how they like them, the quality of construction, their reliability, etc, which is exactly what the OP wanted to know. Pointing out that a better quality custom can be had for a little more money is fine, but for some reason, that's not good enough for some. When someone says that their experience with a certain production gun has been positive, another person has to make every effort to try to convince them that they're wrong that it's nothing but junk and they're wasting their money.

I posted my experiences, so did you, and everyone else. But you're the only one I see trying to convince everyone that doesn't agree with you that they're wrong.

There's a difference between being helpful, and simply tearing something down and trying to back it up by challenging others to compare their time in the shop to yours. At that point it is no longer 'helpful' and is simply attacking something you don't like.

Just imagine how montonous it would be if everyone that says they like a certain production gun got a lecture about how they need to drop it and get a custom.

Oh, wait...
 
If you bother to read my posts closely, you will read that I own two Pedersolis.

They include a bess that needed a rebuild due to sloppy fits on the lock. The hole for the tumber axle was drilled 10 degrees off of perpendicular to the face of the bridle. The hole was .031 larger than the axle on the tumber. The tumbler axle hole in the lockplate is .010 larger than the axle.

I can live with .010 oversize hole, but not the .031 hole. Clearance on those axle holes should be about .005, not .031, or even .010.

That oversize hole was not the result of wear. The hole was still round, not oval, as it would have been from wear.

The lock was so sloppy that the mainspring had worn away part of the bridle and the tumbler had worn a deep score mark in the top of the bridle. There was/is, a deep score mark on the lockplate where the bottom of the tumbler rubbed against the plate.

The sides of the tumbler are still convex, as opposed to flat. Ideally, the sides of the tumbler should be flat with a bearing surface .010 high and about .125 larger in diameter than the axle.
The person who assembled this lock apparently compensated for sloppy fits by grinding the sides of the tumber into a convex configuration. That's real quality. :hmm:

I can't remember how many times the frizzen needed rehardening over the years, at least twice.

Yeah, the lock worked, but it was slow...real slow. I mean REAL slow.

I still shoot that bess quite often but now the lock works 1000% better.

I think I paid about $250 for that od bess, btw. IMHO, the new one I handled last week might have been worth that, but not a lot more.

The 32 frontier rifle needed work too, though not as extensive as the bess lock, and it works much better too.

So I do own and shoot two Pesersoli guns. And to be honest. I began learning how to work on flintlocks because of those two guns.

I also own and shoot a coupla custom guns.

The new Pedersoli guns I saw last week DID NOT COMPARE to the older ones in any way, shape or form.

The price of the bess was nearly $1000,the kentucky rifle was closer to $700, if my memory is correct. IMHO, neither gun is worth half of what they want for them. The quality just isn't there.

I have talked to other gunsmiths that specialize in ML and cartridge BP rifles. Their experienced with Pedersoli products compares with mine.

One very good smith was working on a Pedersoli sharps rifle. He found the same issue with screw holes not being drilled perpendicular to the frame. The holes were drilled at an angle to the frame. They were doing that 20-25 years ago, and they are still making the same mistakes today.

There are a lot higher quality guns available for about the same price, or a little more.

The question is, do ya wanna buy a new gun that needs quite a bit of work to make it right, in part because the manufacturer doesn't care if screw holes are properly drilled, or do ya wanna buy a gun that is right, out of the box, for about the same price?

Like everyone else, I am merely sharing what I have experienced over the years...and as recently as last week.

The point of all of this is, IMHO, the quality of Pedersoli products has never been top notch, and appears to have taken a nose dive recently.
J.D.
 
From what you said about the bess it sounded like a new org! :rotf: That aside the only flintlock Ive got is a new CVA sent to me while Ive been in the hospital 4 monts ago, it wouldnt fire when I got it but just kept playing with it and reading along here and a few books whie laying around in the hospital, now it goes off faster than I think Ive pulled the hammer, love to pop the "dillos" here at night with it, but Sharps and Ped I do know about, they wouldnt listen to the Americans they hired to test and fix them back in the 90s and it sure showed with broke frames ect. Fred :hatsoff:
 
Ive been with J.D. on this for over a decade and this is first ive heard from him.. The pedersoli parts argument has been going on for a long time, im glad someone else is carrying the banner... . If you dont Have any problems you may get by with a pedersoli.. If you have problems you may have big problems... In the old days some of the nipples i ordered woudnt even hold a cap, and the distributer wouldnt take them back, told me to put fingernail polish n them .. Thats when i learned to use a credit card.. Got a second barrel for my mortimer that was so crooked it was useless to me. He didnt want to take it back but i shipped it back anyway.. That was the old days tho...... I like my mortimer, killed alot of birds with it, but if something goes wrong with the lock it would problably be easier to send it to a pro to be rebuilt than to order parts in my opinion.. Mine is a rock crusher and it took me a long time to figure out that a bigger flint helps alot there.. and i just dont like patten breaches.. Fouling slows ignition after about 6 rounds in my mortimer.. It also has too small of lock for me and my liking.. .. The triggers were so soft on my side by side it shot about 3 times before something broke in there, luckily ive got a good black powder blacksmith here that fixed it. ... The barrels are seriously out of alignment... If you can find a good used beat up custom gun for a good price (and a good lock and barrel) youl be a happy camper... I picked up a custom .54 with a sharon barrel last year, and its bore is broke in, I mean really broke in.. Its swamped, and shoots like a house afire... Somthing about reloading a really worn well kept rifle , the crud just easily pushes down ahead of the patch and ball,.. So look for used guns that are american made for a bit if you can... Good luck, dave...
 
I agree with JD, and ffffg. I have had much the same experiences. Fortunatly for me , I have the skills and know how to make them work. I have yet to see a Pedersoli lock that did not need an extensive overhaul. You may get one that works, but for how long is the question. The average Pedersoli will have misaligned screws, and sloppy fits in the lock. Nine times out of ten, most is correctable, but if you cannot do it yourself, you will spend a lot of money paying folks like me, or JD to fix things, or a lot of money shipping back and forth to a Pedersoli distributor. My advice is, don't buy unless you can work them over, or have a friend who can. Over the years, Pdersoli prices have gone up, and quality has gone down. I do not think it will get better unless from public demand. Pedersoli paints a pretty picture, but it often soon fades.
 
I has been brought to my attention that I have been behaving like an arrogant ass. In reviewing recent posts, I realize that I have gone waaaaayyyy over the top in responding to several threads.

This last year has been very difficult, very stressful and I am apparently displacing my frustration and anger onto the members of this board.

That is inexcusable.

I would like to offer my most sincere appology to everyone I have offended.

Returning to my corner.
J.D.
 
"I has been brought to my attention that I have been behaving like an arrogant ass'

JD, I would like to extent an invitation to a charter membership in the "Arrogant Ass Association of America" you will be in excellant company with myself and several others on this forum who speak their mind on the historical and quality aspects of the ML guns and gear on the market today without regard for the tounglashing we may recieve from those not in the know about such things, there are no annual dues or rules other than to continue the arrogance with an arrogant flare, again from one arrogant ass to another welcome.
 
Thats allright ... you guys who can afford, or make do with poorly made $2,000 or $3,000 dollar custom guns can rest easy knowing yours are not as good as $30,000 or $40,000 dollars guns! :shocked2: na na na na na! :shake: :rotf: :grin:

Davy
 
I think 800 dollars is the most I ever paid for a finished gun and 700 for a parts set, there are some realy nice used guns around for under 1000 dollars if you are lucky enough to find them, and arrogance is not about money it is about principle and dedication to the essense of the hobby, there is good arrogance and the dark side of arrogance....
 
tg said:
JD, I would like to extent an invitation to a charter membership in the "Arrogant Ass Association of America" you will be in excellant company with myself and several others on this forum who speak their mind on the historical and quality aspects of the ML guns and gear on the market today without regard for the tounglashing we may recieve from those not in the know about such things, there are no annual dues or rules other than to continue the arrogance with an arrogant flare, again from one arrogant ass to another welcome.

I would much prefer a Crotchety Curmudgeon Society. Sounds better, almost scholarly. :rotf:
J.D.
 

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