Performance difference between Goex & Swiss powder ?

[tenngun]

When I started GO was about all you could find, but occasionally you could get Curtis Harvey
Test showed much lower performance. In a .54 it took a hundred and twenty grains of CH to match hundred of GO.
Howsomever I knew some boys that swore by CH as they said it was easier to clean and super consistent
And they liked the less breech pressure.
Even when you matched velocities the pressure was found to be consistently lower.
In the op he says he shot 6 inches low, but if you matched the MV even taking a higher load would the groups be any different?
I’ve never shot swiss but I have shot elephant and found it preformed real well in my smooth bore. Especially with shot.
Many boys are doing it their self and having to shoot larger charges but getting good down range accuracy, even if they have to bump up the charge.
Eighteenth century saw a lot of powder testers in kits, letting the shooter adjust his charge as needed.
If your rifle gets its best groups at 17-1800 fps, does it make a difference on your powder charge needed to get that velocity?
I’m not being smart here as I’ve never seen this tested.

 

[Nav]

Olde Eynsford, by Goex....is/was better than Swiss,.

Eynsford shot cleaner than Swiss, the fouling stayed softer than Swiss, and it was just as energetic. Hopefully this fine powder will return with the Goax line.

That’s because they didn’t add graphite to it like Swiss does. Swiss has been adding the graphite since 1853, and they’re not changing their recipe. It is my suspicion that the graphite is not insignificant in the fouling. Graphite does not burn, period. They spray it on the formed corns to reduce susceptibility to moisture. With the advent of plastic containers and no more wooden or paper kegs they should have removed it imo.

 

[Marshhawk]

I'm shooting a .54 Rice barrel originally sighted in at 50 yards with 90 grains of 2F Goex. I started using 2F Swiss several years ago, but dropped down to 80 grains. Shots were about 3" higher with Swiss. Since my front sight was filed down to the 90g Goex load, I had no choice but to change out the front sight to a taller blade when I sighted in with Swiss. Swiss is much cleaner to shoot and, of course, has more ooomph.

Y'all are going to make me switch to Swiss. Great avatar by the way. Calasoma scrutator?

 

[brewyak]

After shooting Swiss I hate
to go back to Goex. It appears most shooters are seeing similar performances results with Swiss.
I've always been loyal to Goex and hadn't experimented with other powder.
Has anyone found any brand better than Swiss ?

I don’t think there is any commercially made powder that’s better than Swiss. Goex is made to Mil Spec. The military isn’t worried about cleanliness. Swiss powder is similar to powder that we made in the later 1800’s when the quality of powder was superior to what we have today

 

[Joemolf]

Switched over to Swiss FFFG from Goex due to supply chain.
Not sure if I'm imagining it or not but it appears Swiss powder loads affect the ball placement by 1 to 2 inches higher at 60 yards. Has anyone ever compared the performance between the two brands ?

When you go from goex to swiss you have to retest your loads. 5 grains lower i read is a good starting point possibly lower. Swiss is a higher performance powder kind of like going from 87 octane to 95. Sure I use Goex but my go to powder is Swiss or Swiss Caviar. Swiss Caviar measures better than plain Swiss or the other brands out there. No tapping to get the same volume. Initially when I started with BP I was introduced by Longhunter out of Texas with my 1851 Colt. You might be able to still find it on YouTube id recommend you watch it. There are other comparisons out there that confirm the same and if you like and follow Mike Bellevue Dualists Den you will find the same. Once upon a time he was a Goex Purist. We all know how particularly accurate Mike is. Additionally the guys who are serious about long range shooting from what I read won’t use anything else because of the performance and cleanliness of Swiss BP. If you like higher velocity and less swabbing between shots I think you will like Swiss better. I read a lot of reviews here where folks want to buy American. That’s great but for me when it comes to buying stuff me I try not to buy Stuff made in China ! I have no problem buying stuff from Switzerland they are not an enemy or for the most any other European nations. The CCP is our enemy and they make no bones about it. So I would say it doesn’t make you less a patriot to purchase Swiss if that is your reasoning. I’m sure many who are anti Swiss buy the brand X Schuetzen which I don’t get. I get it it’s cheap but man is it dirty and if you’re performance minded you would never use it. I gave some to a friend I wanted to get rid of it I explained it’s dirty heavy fowling powder. He didn’t care he was going to try it in shotgun shells. I do to but I only use it in paper cartridges for the Brown Bess or Charleville and metallic cartridges. So Swiss is good stuff you will pay more but you will also get a few more shots out of a pound because of the performance increase and a cleaner barrel; in my Bess I like the xtra smoke Schuetzen powder produces.

 

[Ranch 13]

A straight forward comparison of red can Goex to Swiss has to be done fairly
if you drop a charge of red can goex on a sheet of paper and then the same charge of Swiss in the same f size you will notice the Swiss is screened to a smaller size. So that means you need to go to a smaller f size with the red can goex
Olde Eynsford is screened to about the same size as Swiss, and is a different formulation than the red can. Freedom hit it straight on in his description of Olde Eynsford .. And I too hope they get OE back into production.
Back before smokeless came along there were many different types and grades of gun powder, unlike today where we only have a couple of sporting grades

 

[45man]

I made the mistake of shooting the same load of Swiss out of my light .45 flinter as I use with Goex.
First time I had a black and blue shoulder and I have shot some real hard kickers over the years.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

Switched over to Swiss FFFG from Goex due to supply chain.
Not sure if I'm imagining it or not but it appears Swiss powder loads affect the ball placement by 1 to 2 inches higher at 60 yards. Has anyone ever compared the performance between the two brands ?

Elephant!!! the best 10 pounds of powder I ever shot in my whole life! But it was made in Brazil and Brazil is the B in BRICS!!! So God forbid…any who I got the the 10 lbs for free from a local lady trying to dispose of it back in 1998 I believe. Placed a can picture on my avatar in case you haven’t seen them. (Facetious).

On a serious note, Swiss is just hard to beat but I believe granulation may have some to do with it. If you compare Swiss 2f to Goex 3F you may get very similar results but some shooters are very safety adverse and won’t do it. I currently have plenty of both and may run a “scientific” comparison this fall. Either way, rifles like to shoot at a certain velocities, if you can replicate the velocity nod, most time they won’t give a rat’s rear what powder you load, as for fowling you just have to manage it in a different way!!

 

[Joemolf]

Elephant!!! the best 10 pounds of powder I ever shot in my whole life! But it was made in Brazil and Brazil is the B in BRICS!!! So God forbid…any who I got the the 10 lbs for free from a local lady trying to dispose of it back in 1998 I believe. Placed a can picture on my avatar in case you haven’t seen them. (Facetious).

On a serious note, Swiss is just hard to beat but I believe granulation may have some to do with it. If you compare Swiss 2f to Goex 3F you may get very similar results but some shooters are very safety adverse and won’t do it. I currently have plenty of both and may run a “scientific” comparison this fall. Either way, rifles like to shoot at a certain velocities, if you can replicate the velocity nod, most time they won’t give a rat’s rear what powder you load, as for fowling you just have to manage it in a different way!!

What about Caviar which is actually sphere shaped. Unlike regular Swiss which does settle caviar doesn’t settle that much. And unlike regular Swiss which is more silver in color Caviar is black. I’m too lazy to post pictures last time I did because my phone is old my pictures are not the best. Regardless bp is neat stuff. All of it.

 

[William Sublette]

in the later 1800’s when the quality of powder was superior to what we have today

How do you know that?

How would anyone know that?

 

[Bushfire]

My POI for my 54 leman trade went from 75 yards to 100 yards when I changed to Swiss. I happily pay the money and have never looked back.

 

[Joemolf]

When I started GO was about all you could find, but occasionally you could get Curtis Harvey
Test showed much lower performance. In a .54 it took a hundred and twenty grains of CH to match hundred of GO.
Howsomever I knew some boys that swore by CH as they said it was easier to clean and super consistent
And they liked the less breech pressure.
Even when you matched velocities the pressure was found to be consistently lower.
In the op he says he shot 6 inches low, but if you matched the MV even taking a higher load would the groups be any different?
I’ve never shot swiss but I have shot elephant and found it preformed real well in my smooth bore. Especially with shot.
Many boys are doing it their self and having to shoot larger charges but getting good down range accuracy, even if they have to bump up the charge.
Eighteenth century saw a lot of powder testers in kits, letting the shooter adjust his charge as needed.
If your rifle gets its best groups at 17-1800 fps, does it make a difference on your powder charge needed to get that velocity?
I’m not being smart here as I’ve never seen this tested.

Funny I have one of those devices to measure velocity I have never used it to measure velocity out of my flintlocks! Thanks for waking me up; I’m going to have to try it.

 

[brewyak]

How do you know that?

How would anyone know that?

Read this book

 

[garypl]

'Looks like an avg. price for swiss is around $31. a can. Add in shipping and hazmat and it's up to $40. per. I've always used Goex but my ancient supply is almost gone so I thought I'd switch up to Swiss but now I have a lump in my throat. I might have to build myself a .32 at this rate. Criminey !

Grafs has no hazmat and they did have free shipping for orders $150 or more. Buy 5 lbs of Swiss and your cost should be @$31/lb..

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501

 

[Rifleman1776]

For whatever reason, I cannot get decent groups using Swiss. Goex and Schuetzen are my powders of choice.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

Grafs has no hazmat and they did have free shipping for orders $150 or more. Buy 5 lbs of Swiss and your cost should be @$31/lb..

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501

But..but…but there is no black powder anywhere to be found… and the shipping costs…and the HazMat…and is not made in’Murrica…and FedEx wants a signature and a DNA sample …and…and they don’t support shooting sports…and..and…am waiting for GOEX to get on line… and I don’t need 5 pounds, two pounds is a lifetime supply for me..and…and..!!! I am sorry, I have to troll a bit to put things in perspective!!!

 

[PastorB]

I've shot a lot of different guns, both rifles and handguns, over the chronograph. Many of those results I have posted on this forum, and should be readily available doing a search. Bottom line is that Swiss is much hotter than Goex, certainly more than the commonly stated 10%. Nowadays if using real black, I only use Swiss as it is clearly superior to Goex ballistically. That is assuming acceptable accuracy, which I have had no trouble achieving with Swiss.

 

[TarponStalker]

Maybe I'm wrong but can we judge anything about Goex performance going forward? I've noticed everything being said about Goex ( positive or negative) is from the past. Is it possible now that Estes is producing it they've made changes?
I have used Goex black powder for decades with no problems. I had to start using Sheutzen powder when Goex was not available and it was all I could buy locally. I also have no problem with Schuetzen. And frankly, I'm glad they were available when I needed them. I will continue to use both.

 

[godutch]

Grafs has no hazmat and they did have free shipping for orders $150 or more. Buy 5 lbs of Swiss and your cost should be @$31/lb..

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501

Well, you're officially my hero today. Thank you! They had a 4# min order so that's what I was going to order at $160 + change before tax. Adding another # cost me $167 + change w/tax. That looks an awful lot like a free # of powder instead of ship and hazmat fees. Thanks again !

 

[DixieTexian]

Just a thought...
Since Swiss is about 10% more energetic, a sample load of 60gr of Goex powder could be replaced by 50 or 55 grains of Swiss. That is more shots per pound.
If it cleans faster and easier, it is less patches and time.
With these considerations, it my not cost much more than other powders.

A little while back there was a post on here where a poster compared the weights of either Goex or Schuetzen with Swiss, and found that for the same volumetric measure, Swiss was slightly heavier, which means you will get fewer shots per pound if you are measuring volumetrically with Swiss. So they probably cancel each other out for the most part.