Petrolum products and black powder fouling....a chemical analysis.

[Steveoko922]

I've heard arguments to why petrolum products in lube are good and bad, but here is an interesting link to a thread where chemists apply thier feild of expertise to the interactions of individual compounds in black powder and petrolum products.

Still, one of my favorite YouTube, capandball, uses engine oil in his lube recipie with great success. Mabey petrolum products that have a high resistance to heat and pressure don't "soot' up so badly, if at all

https://chemistry.stackexchange.com...ne-to-produce-hard-residues-with-black-powder

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I always use kero soaked patches for the initial cleaning.

 

[SOLANCO]

I always use kero soaked patches for the initial cleaning.

Kero seems hard to find these days. Plenty of bottles of "lamp oil" though. Whatever that is.

 

[Britsmoothy]

There is no problem using petroleum based bullet lubes in firearms, especially breech loaders.
The only problem that will arise is that in time, if the firearm is not cleaned the salts from combusted black powder will separate from the petroleum product and act against the barrel material.
Where as a non petroleum product will continue to offer some protection via the salts not separating from it.

 

[TDM]

Interesting information. I'll just stick to my tried and true procedures that work for me. But there are a multitude of other methods.

 

[alcessapiens]

I wonder how synthetic oils will do? They degrade far less under heat and pressure and have a much higher film strength than natural or petroleum oils.

 

[Tyler L]

Kero seems hard to find these days. Plenty of bottles of "lamp oil" though. Whatever that is.

"Whatever that is" is right! (You've hit on a pet peeve of mine. ) Some "lamp oils" are functionally identical to kerosene, while others are just re-labelled "paraffin oil" which is meant for liquid wax candles. The only way to know for sure what you're buying is to look up the flash point temperature.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I wonder how synthetic oils will do? They degrade far less under heat and pressure and have a much higher film strength than natural or petroleum oils.

Finding pure synthetic oil cost a pretty penny, Motul and Swedish motorcycle oils are pure, and at $30 a quart, not practical to use.
All the rest are 15% synthetic and the rest mineral oil. (petro based)
So yer still pouring sliding down the barrel.

 

[Malamute]

Finding pure synthetic oil cost a pretty penny, Motul and Swedish motorcycle oils are pure, and at $30 a quart, not practical to use.
All the rest are 15% synthetic and the rest mineral oil. (petro based)
So yer still pouring sliding down the barrel.

Not practical compared to what? Truly curious.

Figure the cost per oz ($1.87) and 4 oz in most gun oil bottles, its not badly priced, you just have to buy more at one time.

Ive not ever had any particular problems using whatever old school gun oil (Hoppes etc) I had available on black powder guns, and sometimes used modern bore cleaners (Hoppes No 9 and Shooters Choice) on the fouling, Ive always wondered what the issue was.

 

[Cotton52]

Finding pure synthetic oil cost a pretty penny, Motul and Swedish motorcycle oils are pure, and at $30 a quart, not practical to use.
All the rest are 15% synthetic and the rest mineral oil. (petro based)
So yer still pouring sliding down the barrel.

Check out AMSOIL they are pure synthetic I believe.

 

[Nazgul58]

I've heard arguments to why petrolum products in lube are good and bad, but here is an interesting link to a thread where chemists apply thier feild of expertise to the interactions of individual compounds in black powder and petrolum products.

Still, one of my favorite YouTube, capandball, uses engine oil in his lube recipie with great success. Mabey petrolum products that have a high resistance to heat and pressure don't "soot' up so badly, if at all

https://chemistry.stackexchange.com...ne-to-produce-hard-residues-with-black-powder

Read the whole article. It did not have a definite answer as to why the fouling occurred.

I expected an answer at the end. He just says "it does cause fouling".

Don

 

[Eutycus]

I've brought this question up sometime ago. What is synthetic oil made from?

 

[amcmullen]

I've brought this question up sometime ago. What is synthetic oil made from?

Regular oil, chemically modified. I assume that "synthetic " is more marketing than anything

 

[The Crisco Kid]

I've read that it's made from natural gas. It's molecules are all identicle long string polymers with no impurities. This could all be BS. I don't know about all that but I do know that Mobile 1 made a noticable difference in how my old Ford sounds when it starts up on a cold day so I think it's a lot better lube than the older oils.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I use synthetic oil in my scuba tank compressor for bottling breathing air, which compresses my storage tanks up to 5000 psi. (The dive tanks are only 3000 psi.) Those (compressor) cylinders get plenty hot so I don't want it breaking down. It's considered a "food safe" oil, so if some of the residue gets through the filters it is benign with the human system. Stuff like air for people to breathe is NOT the place to try and economize! But as above, at $35 / quart it's very spendy stuff.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I wonder how synthetic oils will do? They degrade far less under heat and pressure and have a much higher film strength than natural or petroleum oils.

Completely wrong.
An engines environment is completely different to a muzzloader or any other firearm using black powder.
An engines environment produces a lot of water vapour. Various acids are produced, hydrocarbons and particulates.
The oil has to carry that for long periods of time. It rarely if at all comes in contact with salts.
Put another way, if an engine was made that could run on black powder, how long do you think it would run?

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Put another way, if an engine was made that could run on black powder, how long do you think it would run?

Not long. The Government would ban it as one of the leading causes of climate change.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

I'm sticking to Bore Butter. Not saying that there might be some newer products that work as well or better, but BB works good enough for me. Cooking spray works pretty well too, at least for a patch lube.

The earliest diesel engines were made to run on pulverized coal, so I suspect they'd have run on black powder as well. I don't think they lasted long though for obvious reasons mostly having to do with dirty combustion and fuel delivery issues. Spark ignition engines running on black powder? I don't see it happening.

Anybody know of any good whale oil substitutes? Only thing I can think of is finding a beached sperm whale carcase... which given the rate of decay for something like that would be a pretty stinky proposition. Also, there are no sperm whales in the great lakes to wash up on the beach.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I'm sticking to Bore Butter. Not saying that there might be some newer products that work as well or better, but BB works good enough for me. Cooking spray works pretty well too, at least for a patch lube.

The earliest diesel engines were made to run on pulverized coal, so I suspect they'd have run on black powder as well. I don't think they lasted long though for obvious reasons mostly having to do with dirty combustion and fuel delivery issues. Spark ignition engines running on black powder? I don't see it happening.

Anybody know of any good whale oil substitutes? Only thing I can think of is finding a beached sperm whale carcase... which given the rate of decay for something like that would be a pretty stinky proposition. Also, there are no sperm whales in the great lakes to wash up on the beach.

Good ole' olive oil and a lump of beeswax thrown in. Simples.

 

[Steveoko922]

Well all I can say is that the YouTuber Capandball in Hungary puts out some very nice shooting videos with muzzloaders and cartridge rifles mentioning a beeswax, tallow and 5w30 synthetic oil mix. His lube looks very soft

I did try using a similar mix albiet with water soluble cutting solution and beeswax. Was a very tacky mix. My springfield trapdoor went from shooting great to sending bullets everywhere but the target. I had a similar experience with a p53 while trying soy wax...no hits and bullets going wild. Seems like lube that is tacky and thick don't work.