Picking Flash hole

[Runner]

Yep! Most will show a marked preference for bevel up or bevel down. Most will show a strong preference for leather or lead. Most will not be harmed by picking the vent, and some will be helped a lot.
My Tradition's is the modern version of the patent breech/drum system. Mine has a vent liner with a screw driver slot that crosses the vent. That lock takes a very small flint and hits the frissen at the wrong angle. It does not have a lock bridle inside and tolerances are good enough to get by with. All locks are different.
The test takes so little time and it has so much to tell you about your gun. Why would people not take 15 minutes to find out?

 

[Larry Pletcher]

If everyone in this discussion would do this simple digital camera experiment, then we could discuss this subject a lot easier. It pretty much eliminates speculation and belief from the equation and replaces it with a good record of the truth.

In March of this year the same comments appeared about lead vs leather wrapped flint. I posted photos taken just as you describe.

Here is the link:[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum...d/204755/post/388641/hl//fromsearch/1/#388641[/url]


I took a number of pics with both wrapping methods. The post explains what and how I did the pics. You can read that with the pics.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Gemoke]

Daniel, I`m that guy and you should quit picking on me.And my lock is faster than yours so that makes my the fastest ever. :blah: :blah:

 

[Runner]

The way that lock throws sparks, I could see how it would make little difference! Everyone here that uses a flinter needs to do this. It simplifies a lot of things when you start with your lock working as well as it can! I have done all my testing using sharp agate type flints that I made. That kept things as close to the same shot to shot as I could. The Tradition's lock takes a flint the size of a dime, and you have to notch the leather to use one that big. I need to try some flints from Rich. The difference between that lock and mine are scary big!

 

[Dphar]

If everyone in this discussion would do this simple digital camera experiment, then we could discuss this subject a lot easier. It pretty much eliminates speculation and belief from the equation and replaces it with a good record of the truth.

In March of this year the same comments appeared about lead vs leather wrapped flint. I posted photos taken just as you describe.

Here is the link:[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum...d/204755/post/388641/hl//fromsearch/1/#388641[/url]


I took a number of pics with both wrapping methods. The post explains what and how I did the pics. You can read that with the pics.

Regards,
Pletch

The question of bouncing sparks came up in the linked thread and if they would do so if priming were in the pan. This might be resolved by using some corn meal in the pan????

Dan

 

[paulvallandigham]

No one would expect steel bits to bounce off anything soft, including powder or sawdust. Steel bits bounce off of bare steel.

The comments about sparks bouncing off steel twice was to indicate the greater heat of sparks and their longer life when a lead wrap is used vs. a leather wrap around the same flint. Its something that can be easily seen with the naked eye, in the dark, if your eyes are allowed to adjust to the dark conditions and the pupils are allowed to dialate before the experiment is done.

There are several people here who purposely don't do the test correctly so they claim no difference in apparent sparking between using a Leather wrap and a lead wrap. The easiest way to do that is to NOT let their eyes adjust to the dark before sparking the flint, or NOT tighten the cock screw after 5 strikes so that the lead wrap is allowed to seat itself around the flint.

They are more interested in being " Right " than in learning that there might be a better way. When my late friend showed me this test, I was as cynical, and " know-it-all " then, as these folks are now. I was pig-headed and stupid. But when Don ran the test, and made me stand around in a dark room in his house for 15 minutes after he turned off the lights, to see the sparks' color differences clearly, and then to see the double bounce of the sparks, I had to admit he was on to something. I am, to a fault, an honorable man.

They have the right to be as pig-headed and stupid as they wish. They don't have the right to come on here, and use their reputations for knowledge in other aspects of ML shooting, to lie to readers here, who don't know better.

Asking Larry to waste his time testing whether steel bits will bounce off of sawdust, Dan, is embarrassingly inexcusable for you to do. The results are foregone conclusions, and prove nothing. It does not help your argument at all.

Larry Pletcher is a fine gunbuilder, and a finer scientist. If you don't like his data, move on to another topic. Please. I don't care how you feel about me. But Larry deserves your respect, if for no other reason than all the " free " time he has donated to our sport to answer questions about ignition speeds.

 

[Runner]

The difference is hot sparks that sometimes split in the pan and bounce around looking for prime to ignite. Bouncing is a good thing. Adding a filler to the pan would just kill the hot sparks you worked and adjusted to create.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Hi Paul,
I appreciate your comments; they made my day. But, I must say that I was not offended at all by Dan's suggestion. I expect that every experiment should draw comments and suggestions. It's almost like peer-reviews of experiementation in the "real world". I thought the suggestion was made in good faith and welcome all comments made that way.

I confess that the last 20 years of experimenting with flintocks has tended to make me a bit sceptical in that I am beginning to question ideas that we have held for many years. Here are two as an example:

1. Vertical location of touch holes - Conventional wisdom says a hole level with the pan top. I am planning a test to see if that can be measured. I think that the fixture I used to time vent holes can be tweaked to time different locations.

2. Banking priming powder- Conventional wisdom here says prime banked away from the vent is faster. I think the same fixture can be used to measure this as well.

It will be a while before these tests are up and running. When I'm ready, I'll probably start a new topic and ask for comments about methodology.

Anyway, I am not offended by constructive comments and respect you, Dan, and the rest on this list.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[HuntAway]

I pick my vent when I don't I get F.I.P.'s

I did a little youtubing and found this Siler lock demo in slow motion. Be patient it is in Super Slow Mo.[url] http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=GzgVnH6uEP0&feature=related[/url]

and another[url] http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=mLLHXwoClyo&feature=related[/url]

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I did a little youtubing and found this Siler lock demo in slow motion. Be patient it is in Super Slow Mo.[url] http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=GzgVnH6uEP0&feature=related[/url]

and another[url] http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=mLLHXwoClyo&feature=related[/quote][/url]

The first link is to mine. There is another at the same site "flint40" that shows a pan primed with 4fg.

If you search for a user named "friendship07" you will find a number of other locks that we did at Friendship at the National Spring Championship. Among those are an original Manton and wheel lock. It's the first I know of that shows the wheel lock.

The other link you mentioned is with a German camera and I believe it was taken at 1000 frames/second (based on the amount of time taken).

Regards,
Pletch

 

[HuntAway]

Regards Pletch. Great camera work!!! Thanks

 

[arkrivco]

Where do you get the thin lead for wrapping flint?

arkrivco

"love those old guns"

 

[bob4st]

...that Siler lock video was the coolest thing I've seen in years!!...
Thanks!!
Bob

 

[Larry Pletcher]

arkrivco,
The lead wrap was a lead ball hammered out very thin. I used a heavy scissors and cut it the same way I'd cut a piece of leather. Once I had it to general shape I cut the lead as close to the flint shape as I could. fairly easy to do.

bob4st,
The videos at flint40 are obviously the same lock with ffg and ffffg priming powder. If you go to friendship07 you will see a bunch more. I can't remember what all you'll find, but IIRC there is a Chamber's with no frizzen spring, the Siler up-side-down, original Manton, wheel lock, and more. All were shot at 5000fps using an Olympus HS camera. The regional rep from Cinncinati did the camera work and I burned the CDs.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Sham66]

This one has a fast action!
[url] http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=mLB9BdbfSPE&NR=1[/url]



James

 

[gmww]

Lordy what was that? He was holding it with two hands and still lost it. Wow. :hmm:

 

[FPDoc]

Was that a semi-auto pistol... you fire and it immediately relocates to the loading area?? :surrender:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Ow! Suppose he forgot to put the barrel key in? I can't tell if it's the whole pistol or just the barrel that clocked him. Lots of shadows flying around afterwards.

 

[flaming canvas]

Does anyone know the playback speed from utube?

Seems like I heard once upon a time that video cameras run at 31 or 32 frames per second.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Does anyone know the playback speed from utube?

Seems like I heard once upon a time that video cameras run at 31 or 32 frames per second.

30 fps is typical. A slow motion like the Silers was filmed at 5000fps. Play that back at 30fps and it's like 167 times slower that live.
Regards,
Pletch