Pictures of an interesting smoothbore

[tg]

" in the barn shooting hogs before slaughter'

With the pig sticker that comes with those guns shooting hogs would be a waste of ball and powder....

 

[Okwaho]

I agree with Va.manuf. and Mike on this gun.I've seen too many of these old guns used as Mike suggests{maybe this makes it a "barn gun"}or for some type of hunting as a homemade shotgun.I thought the modern paint job probably added to make people think "Indian" was really funky but that's not a new technique to enhance a gun like this.I'm only suprised that it was priced so low.As to pricing it out on Ebay,the lock and barrel might bring a few dollars but threre's not a big demand for these type of parts.If it were mine,I'd strip the paint, wash the gun with warm water and some Dove or other detergent, get a simple bag and horn,hang them above the fireplace and forget it or in the alternative leave it "as found" except to dull the paint, maybe add some brass tacks and take it to an auction attended by a bunch of yuppies needing instant "country/western decor" and hold your nose while the auctioneer eloquently and creatively describes it and make a few dollars.I've been to a lot of auctions advertising "Indian guns" and "Confederate guns" and I should know better by now but hope does indeed spring eternal.
Tom Patton

 

[44-henry]

One thing the photos are probably betryaing because of flash is that the paint looks new. It is anything but new, seasoning cracks in the stock cut right into the paint. The paint is old, in spots the wood and patina are worn threw in spots. The stock at one time was fully painted, black I think, and most of that has worn away leaving the patina behind and paint in somewhat protected areas. The cheekpiece is also interesting, it has a funny texture to it and there is a shadow on it that looks like it at one time had some kind of ornament attached, what looks like a cross of some sort. There is an old period repair to the wrist, where a brass plate was inlet into the stock and attached with screws. It is possible that the red, yellow and perhaps white had been touched up at some time, but that wasn't recently. The only reason I have to think this at all is that the red at the forearm tip goes into one of the cracks in the stock. However, this crack could have been around for awhile so I'm not totally discounting it by that alone. In any event the red paint is still very old. I'm really not promoting this gun as anything but something I picked up for $39.00 and I suppose I could sell it as a genuine Indian Gun if I wanted to and probably for quite a profit. Let's consider something though, I live in the Midwest. There are lot's of reservations close by and the Red River Valley that I reside in has quite a history going back to the 1850's. Lot's of poor people of all ethnic backgrounds came into this area during the early years. These people couldn't always afford the best arms and guns like this might have been the only practical choice for them. Not bad either when you consider it could take both ball and shot making a good multipurpose tool. It would not be the first gun of it's type used during the western period. The only information that I could get out of the people who sold me this gun (and a few others equally as interesting) was that it had been a local collector who had been collecting in this area for years. Lot's of neat things surfaced out of that collection, I for instance bought an 1883 Colt shotgun grade 2, beautifully engraved and with factory engraved initials on the action. A historical shotgun to say the least, but also from this collection. My point is, somewhat rambling I suppose, that nobody for sure really can say for sure or for certain what this guns history is. I suspect that it probably did reside in this vicinity in any event. It might, as has been said, been a barn gun, or it could have also had different origins. I can honestly say that whatever has been done to it has been done a long time ago, take my word for it, these aren't modern touches. Maybe some collector in the 1950's painted the stock to make a decorator out of it, certainly not for any other purpose since it would have had no value than. Now if it was a gun that was brought to me and the person selling it had a great story to go along with it that would be one thing, I'm a suspicious person by nature. But who the hell would go to all the trouble and than practically give it away to the store where I bought it? Lot's of questions, perhaps worth nothing, but I for one wish it could speak, I think the conversation would be interesting. Thankyou for all the interest. By the way the caliber looks to be about 70 smoothbore, and there is a definite hole that looks to be the remains of a touchole.

 

[G. W. Gill]

Austrian tube lock imported at the beginning of the civil war. The stock with cheekpiece is original. I have an 1842 that was converted with the bolster method aprox. .71 cal rifled. Great shotgun. Yours was most likely Union bought and sold surplus or battlefield pickup. Austrian muskets were built using parts from older models. My 1842 has what I believe to be a 1795 stock cut down and refitted. Talk about aged wood. Yours will most likely be be .54 or .58 cal. It has an interesting history as it was a very cheap weapon that someone wen't through allot of effort to keep up. Screws have been replaced, stock mended, ect. I suspect it was bought at a reservation store or taken from a farmer's wagon. It's value in 1866 would have been about $1.00. :winking: Less in the 1870's :grin:

 

[44-henry]

I will measure the bore again, but I'm sure it's closer to the 70 caliber than 58. It is an interesting gun.

 

[G. W. Gill]

Hi, I just noticed the octagon to round barrel. Your right, it will be like .71 cal. It looks like you have one like mine that was changed to tube lock using old parts. Mine has the pin and a single forward band that acts like a nose cap. You can see where they took off a ramrod guide and smoothed it out. The South bought quite a few of these and cut them off a few inches ahead of the pin and issued them to cavalry. I don't think yours is one of them. I believe yours was one bought by the North so the South could not get it. Sold surplus and ended up in a store. Indian store would be most probable. I think you have an indian gun. Valued very much by it's owner.