pictures wanted of prb damage

[Roguedog]

One last thing I would like to say. A patched roundball kills every effectively but not at the expense of a lot of wasted meat. It drops deer almost as fast as a modern centerfire (if not faster at times)but typically will not bloodshot a lot of the meat. To me, this is another advantage of the patched round ball.

Jeff

 

[daniel collums]

I'm not in any way trying to hurt the feelings of others by showing cut open deer or disrespect creatures i have taken the life of to eat. I respect the life of all creatures and when i say that i mean i don't feel my life as a human creature is any more important on this earth as any 4 leg creature. In fact i feel that the human creature has impacted the earth to a point that we will sometime in the future destroy the entire planet or at least make it unfit for most creatures to enjoy life as we already have for so many. Now that i have said all that i want to say that i have killed so many deer with bow,cf gun and black powder guns that there is no way i could even start to count them. Not trying to brag thats just how its been for me. In fact there has been many times i have put deer and other creatures on the ground only to see them struggle to stay alive and it has made me cry to see the things i have done to them and a lot of these times i was using a centerfire rifle of a large cal. so when you talk about the aught6 and its killing power that dont really mean nothing to me especially when you shoot as bad as me. Thats why i find myself trying to get as close to a target as i can before i fire and try to make sure the shot i make will kill as fast as it can. I have cut open so many deer and hogs looking for the path of the bullet trying to see the how the bullet terminated the organs, how it worked after hitting bone, did the bullet or ball stay together and a whole bunch of other things a person can learn from this type of cavity search. All in all it may look like disrespect but in a way it is just the opposite, its a way to show the terminal way your prb works and it will make you understand what you need to do the next shot to help yourself to make the most ethical shot/kill you can make. How many deer have been shot right through the lungs only to take off and run so far that a hunter can't find them. Not saying center mass lung shots are bad in fact they are lethal but a hair to far back and that deers headed to the swamp or the thickest brush it can find before falling dead or bedding up. A shot centered to the shoulder within range of your weapon will go through bone and take out massive amounts of the pumping and breathing station and most of the time will put a deer down in seconds. I have seen what i need to know, its the ones who haven't that need to see if they want to know where to put the shot or dont think a prb can make a ethical kill, and what better way to show the effect a soft round ball (that in comparison with a cf round is just barley moving) will do when properly shot through the chest cavity.

 

[rodwha]

"Photos of wounds, deer on the ground, accounts, ect ect, none of that was good enough, he wanted detailed photos of wound cavities and shredded organs to be convinced."

Actually that's not what he asked. This was his statement:

"...but the more a person using a black powder rifle can learn from seeing the damage done by a properly placed shot from a round ball the more confidence a new user of a muzzle loader hunter would have."

I took this as people such as myself who were first interested, but, like many, know more about modern firearms, and as you mentioned the modern muzzleloader guys try to convince potential customers they need the newfangled stuff.

 

[roundball]

Killed so many you can't count them all ??

Post up all the photos and we'll count them for you

 

[Stumpkiller]

54ball

The eyes, the interaction of deer with one another up close, the playfulness, the alert. When you face one of those magnificent critters eye to eye and he makes you, at that moment, he knows it and you know it and you fire.

Agree with all you said . . . but. One thing I learned early on was NOT to make eye contact with a deer. A deer is just as spooked by a stump with eyes as you would be. :haha:

I make it a point once I see the deer is one I want to keep my eyes squinted and focus on the chest and that tiny spot that will pass the ball/arrow through the vitals.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've only recovered one round ball. That was a frontal from 10 or 12 yards at ground level (I was sitting on a tie-on tree seat) and it was lodged in the skin behind the leg after taking out the aorta and doing lung, diaphragm, liver, much vein/artery damage and much other mayhem. The buck never lifted his hind feet but reared up and collapsed.

That was with a .50. All others have been double-lung pass throughs from under 40 yards. With my .54 I have not recovered a ball, 5 yards to 80 yards, though one or two may have been in one of the stomachs. I really wasn't that keen on going in after it. Round balls apparently occasionally take a turn once inside as I have had entry-hole-only kills that I never did figure out where the ball ended up. But dead is dead.

With my .72 (Bess) again, complete pass throughs; but at 20 to 25 yards. That had no rear sight and not really a front sight so I only took close shots.

Will get back to you on a .66 if I get a chance with a round ball through my fowler. It's on the menu.

I do autopsy my deer when I field-dress them because I want to know what works and how. And where the vital bits are. I know with a round ball any time you hit the spine they drop; but usually if I hit that I was aiming lower, so to aim for it might have made the shot too high.

My other choices are bow or slug shotgun in this area. I put the ball as a more accurate than a slug (though on par with the newer slugs like the Hornady SST in a rifled slug barrel) and the blood trails no longer for distance - but less blood. Rifled slugs make wicked wounds.

No question round balls are superseded ballistically by other projectiles; but as lball size goes up so does the hole. It is called "Primitive" season with a reason - in those places that didn't just give up calling it that. You have to be willing to adapt your methods to the challenge of reduced range.

For many years I used a T/C percussion muzzleloader during regular season (Renegade or New Englander). With Maxi-Hunters during regular season at first and round ball for m/l season. I went exclusively round ball around 1995 and limit my shots to 80 yards (about as good as I see iron sights anyhow). Furthest I ever went with a conical was 120 yards on a bedded buck after I spent 10 minutes quietly getting my rest in a blow-down just so.

Our whitetail locally run (dressed weight) 180 to 200 for a full adult and a huge buck might go 220 to 230 lbs.

By way of interest I just went back through my hunting log for deer:

Pistol (.44 Mag) 1
Rifle 2
Slug shotgun 17
Conical m/l 3
Round ball m/l 11
Wood arrow 8
20 gauge shot 1 (fallow deer interesting story)

 

[daniel collums]

when i was 9 my dad passed away and my mom had to take a job to raise all us, that year 1974 i got my first shotgun. the deer killing started that year and an't stopped yet. i do have a few pictures of some of the bigger ones but around here there are so many deer and so many folks deer hunt that deer killing to us is like chicken killing to a amish. heck that first couple years my mom would have to put the guns up cause all the freezer space would be full and all the neighbors had all the meat they wanted. i didnt even get a buck mounted till 1990 or so and that was cause i won a big buck contest and first place included a free mount, we just hung the racks on the porch or the dog pens. around 83 or 84 the deer population got so big they started letting us take does. i dont even remember taking a picture of a deer before 1985 and that was one i took of my little brother.

 

[Vaino]

We don't need a necropsy to arrive at a conclusion that a PRB of suitable caliber will do the job....it's been proven through out the centuries. Kind of a "funny" request?.....Fred

 

[rodwha]

Maybe it's understood by those who were interested in this form of history. But for those who only understand what's been taught within the last 50-60 years will believe there's no way this can be effective or ethical.

A RB defies everything modern.

While showing the extent of damage they can do might be a bit extreme I can see how ignorant people just seeing a dead deer may think it was just a lucky shot. I was certainly one of them.

 

[Stumpkiller]

If you watch the hunting shows anything you used last year is obsolete and should be replaced.

Whitetail deer, mule deer, elk, moose, etc. have been unchanged since at least the last ice age. At some point the technology becomes redundant.

I recall some well intended folks came up with several ways to inject succinylcholine into deer from arrows that would have made any torso or even throat or leg hit lethal to a deer in seconds. No more wounded deer! It was decried by almost everyone, hunters and non-hunters alike, as unsportsmanlike and thought it would just produce slob hunters who shot indiscriminately.

If you develop something - anything - that is effective to 100 yards someone is going to try 150 yards. Guaranteed. That's just what we humans do. Round balls are effective when applied responsibly. Know your weapon's limitations (aka "shoot enough gun"), know your own limitations and practice, practice, practice.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

54 cal r.b, 110 grns of Goex express 75 yrd off hand heart shot.


50 cal r.b 90 grns Goex fffg 30 yrds heart shot


54 cal r.b 110 grns Goex ffg 60 yrds broad side lung shot

 

[roundball]

Yes, they were "THE" worldwide projectile for centuries...whole populations survived using game taken with them, wars were fought with them, and on and on...not sure what to think of this thread, but all the poster has to do is use Google images to see all sorts of photos of tissue damage...from deer & hogs that were already dead.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=e...0....0...1ac.1.58.img..28.17.1437.lS5hijJ9vSw

 

[Kapow]

I shot this boar side on about 60m with a roundball from a .54 GPR with a load of 100gn FFg. He went about 50-60m. The ball was recovered under the skin on the far side of the pig, a perfect mushroom. Hop that helps.

 

[daniel collums]

thats a nice lung shot, when the ball entered did it hit bone before taking out the lungs.

 

[Vaino]

I think you're seeking the wrong info....how far did the animal travel after being shot is what you should be asking and where was the actual shot placement? Looking at the actual "damage" to vitals, unless you're trained in necropsy, can be all but misleading for a neophyte.. Seems a kinda "weird" request....anyways to my thinking.....Fred

 

[robert reed]

Okay Clyde, I won't post any more pictures of my stainless side lock. :surrender: I won't stop using it though, it's my "canoe gun". :rotf:

 

[daniel collums]

if your talking about the hog above, read what he said, he answered all the things you said. range,shot placement, how far it traveled after being hit, etc. and for the record you could say i got a good background in biology and such things that pertain to animal anatomy.

 

[Walks with fire]

I think it was Semi-Sane that posted a pic of the internal damage of a .58 caliber ball at around 65 yards on a whitetail. Pretty impressive.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Okay Clyde, I won't post any more pictures of my stainless side lock. :surrender: I won't stop using it though, it's my "canoe gun". :rotf:

Canoe?
I love canoes, great use for aluminum :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Worst part about hunting canoes is skinnin 'em and stretching out their hide to get it flat.