Piece of Junk

[Crockford]

I have a hunting buddy and long time friend who let's me shoot Doe on his hunting property for deer management. I have been trying to get him interested in BP hunting. He set with me a few years ago on a doe hunt and I shot a doe at around 100 yards and it dropped in its tracks. He was amazed and said I'm just surprised that old gun went off. We were talking about doing a management hunt this year and I told him to make it interesting and fun, I would supply the guns and items needed if he would do a "Hawken hunt" . We could get everyone there the day before and spend the whole day just shooting targets and getting everyone acquainted to the guns. They all have in-lines so shouldn't be to difficult.
He called me yesterday morning and said he was going through his gun safe and had forgotten about a muzzleloader he bought from a guy ten or so years ago. He said he actually bought two from him but he had given the flintlock away because it was broken and would not shoot. He keep the percussion because he thought it would look neat hanging in a cabin if he ever built one. He said it was a .36cal lefthanded gun and was also not working and was probably "just a piece of junk".
Squirrel season is in, I told him that I was off after 12:00 and would come over to his place and would give him my " not so expert" thoughts on the gun and if it is not broken we will shoot it and maybe try to hunt Squirrel with it . I packed up my .36 stuff and head over to his place after work. He had the supplies that came with it layed out ready to go.
Pyrodex RS
.375 balls
Caps in a capper
I told him I'm not lefthanded but before we get started if you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for this "junk". He said $175 for both guns and bag of stuff, but I knew neither gun worked and were probably just wall hangers. I told him before we get started I will give you $200 for the gun, you can keep the stuff and it will probably save you thousands in the future. He then said you think it is really worth $200! Well let's see if it will go bang and we will negotiate from there.
I checked to see if it was loaded and was clear of any obstructions, then coached him as he loaded with the supplies he had on hand, I supplied patches.
He pulls the trigger nothing. The hammer fell so slow the cap didn't even go off. We replaced the cap, still nothing. I said let's try my new caps, caps may be bad. New caps, nothing. He was ready to give up and give me the gun at this point.
I pulled the lock off and the oil on the inside looked like it had harden. I gave it a quick cleaning and new lube. And low and behold it goes poof. I could actually see the ball flying in the air it came out so slow. I then explained to him the different in Pyro and BP. And the difference in grain size and different calibers.
I then gave the gun a quick range cleaning and discovered the gun was actually a .40 cal with a Douglas barrel. The triggers were shimmed under the springs and a good breeze would set them off.
I told him I believe you have a gun that was someone's competition gun because of the way the trigger was set up.
After putting everything back together I broke out my supplies with a proper ball size for .40 cal. We shot the gun for another couple hours, by the time we were done he was hitting a 8" steel target at 100 yards. He was shocked at it's accuracy. Laughing I told him I would now double my offer to $400 and would love to have seen the piece of junk flintlock he gave away if it was anywhere near the quality of this gun.
I explained to him that he had a very fine gun and it was probably worth 5 times what he paid for both and he should be proud to own it.
He called me at 6:00 this morning and asked , hey if you run across a good "Hawken" let me know . I think I want a .54cal for deer hunting.... So his journey begins...... I reminded him that I was willing to save him thousands just yesterday and my offer stood!!!!
I did bring his gun home with me and gave it a proper cleaning. I also took out the shim from the spring so it wouldn't be such a hair trigger. Here is a picture of his "piece of Junk"

I believe he is hooked and we will have another BP shooter.

 

[azmntman]

Well done. Looks like he may have let a nice flinter go!

 

[Crockford]

I told him, whomever the original owner was probably didn't own "junk" and he probably gave away a fine gun. This guy is very knowledgeable in modern firearms and woodworking. I told him he should have been able to just look at them and see they were nice guns. He even commented that he thought the wood stain was odd because it looked greenish. I had to explain that too. I did tell him I learn lots everyday and that there are very few people in our area that knows anything about them and I am far from being an expert.

 

[longcruise]

I have a hunting buddy and long time friend who let's me shoot Doe on his hunting property for deer management. I have been trying to get him interested in BP hunting. He set with me a few years ago on a doe hunt and I shot a doe at around 100 yards and it dropped in its tracks. He was amazed and said I'm just surprised that old gun went off. We were talking about doing a management hunt this year and I told him to make it interesting and fun, I would supply the guns and items needed if he would do a "Hawken hunt" . We could get everyone there the day before and spend the whole day just shooting targets and getting everyone acquainted to the guns. They all have in-lines so shouldn't be to difficult.
He called me yesterday morning and said he was going through his gun safe and had forgotten about a muzzleloader he bought from a guy ten or so years ago. He said he actually bought two from him but he had given the flintlock away because it was broken and would not shoot. He keep the percussion because he thought it would look neat hanging in a cabin if he ever built one. He said it was a .36cal lefthanded gun and was also not working and was probably "just a piece of junk".
Squirrel season is in, I told him that I was off after 12:00 and would come over to his place and would give him my " not so expert" thoughts on the gun and if it is not broken we will shoot it and maybe try to hunt Squirrel with it . I packed up my .36 stuff and head over to his place after work. He had the supplies that came with it layed out ready to go.
Pyrodex RS
.375 balls
Caps in a capper
I told him I'm not lefthanded but before we get started if you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for this "junk". He said $175 for both guns and bag of stuff, but I knew neither gun worked and were probably just wall hangers. I told him before we get started I will give you $200 for the gun, you can keep the stuff and it will probably save you thousands in the future. He then said you think it is really worth $200! Well let's see if it will go bang and we will negotiate from there.
I checked to see if it was loaded and was clear of any obstructions, then coached him as he loaded with the supplies he had on hand, I supplied patches.
He pulls the trigger nothing. The hammer fell so slow the cap didn't even go off. We replaced the cap, still nothing. I said let's try my new caps, caps may be bad. New caps, nothing. He was ready to give up and give me the gun at this point.
I pulled the lock off and the oil on the inside looked like it had harden. I gave it a quick cleaning and new lube. And low and behold it goes poof. I could actually see the ball flying in the air it came out so slow. I then explained to him the different in Pyro and BP. And the difference in grain size and different calibers.
I then gave the gun a quick range cleaning and discovered the gun was actually a .40 cal with a Douglas barrel. The triggers were shimmed under the springs and a good breeze would set them off.
I told him I believe you have a gun that was someone's competition gun because of the way the trigger was set up.
After putting everything back together I broke out my supplies with a proper ball size for .40 cal. We shot the gun for another couple hours, by the time we were done he was hitting a 8" steel target at 100 yards. He was shocked at it's accuracy. Laughing I told him I would now double my offer to $400 and would love to have seen the piece of junk flintlock he gave away if it was anywhere near the quality of this gun.
I explained to him that he had a very fine gun and it was probably worth 5 times what he paid for both and he should be proud to own it.
He called me at 6:00 this morning and asked , hey if you run across a good "Hawken" let me know . I think I want a .54cal for deer hunting.... So his journey begins...... I reminded him that I was willing to save him thousands just yesterday and my offer stood!!!!
I did bring his gun home with me and gave it a proper cleaning. I also took out the shim from the spring so it wouldn't be such a hair trigger. Here is a picture of his "piece of Junk"View attachment 174511View attachment 174513View attachment 174514
I believe he is hooked and we will have another BP shooter.

Is the wrap on the forearm a repair or???

 

[Crockford]

No just for looks.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Nice southern mountain rifle, take that wrapping off for better looks!

 

[Crockford]

I told him that I would call it a Poor-Boy and the leather took away from it. But I also like leaving something original as found, I feel like it honors the previous owner and keeps their spirit alive. I'm kinda weird like that.

 

[Travis186]

The pre-conceived notions and misconceptions by modern "riflemen" if you can call them that, about older firearms is mind boggling to say the least, downright annoying most of the time.

 

[Garbear34]

 

[t_carlyle]

Beautiful rifle and a neat story of helping a friend into the sport!

 

[1BadDart]

Nice rifle! The lock being on the correct side is a bonus too.

 

[hanshi]

Indeed it is an interesting story. I find it bazar he would think it was junk. It's a very nice SMR.

 

[Tacitus]

Very nice story with a happy ending.
It does make one wonder how many times a neglected original SMR or poor boy has been thrown away because some unknowledgeable suppository shooter was of the opinion the gun was a plain looking and care worn "useless piece of junk".

 

[Tacitus]

The leather wrap may be more than mere decoration. If it was a competition rifle I wonder if the wrap may have been a tactile reminder that served to maintain a consistent hold point for it's owner?

 

[Spikebuck]

I can't blame modern shooters with no prior experience with traditional arms for not understanding. They have been misinformed their entire shooting life!

I remember the Cabelas' catalog stating that round balls were good for "plinking" while of course all of their expensive plastic wrapped bullets were deadly on game!

We've all seen the shock on modern shooters faces at the range when they see just how accurate our traditional arms are.

 

[oldwood]

An odd quirk I've had to deal with a couple times is , having to teach new owners of traditional long rifles , the proper way to hold, and fire their rifles. Seems some guys with military experience , are so ingrained to hold and fire an M-16 with the standard military plastic stock , they need a little coaching to stop the tendency of placing their face forward on the stock , and getting smacked in the cheek . On a traditional rifle , the stock is gripped with both hands , and pulled into the shoulder , and the cheek is just laid on the stock above the cheek rest. The sights should line up at that point , and no bashing in the face should occur. I showed an ex state police friend of mine , why he was getting smacked in the face , and dang , turns out he's a better m/l shot than I am..........oldwood

 

[Bad Karma]

I was taught to shoot first by my father, a former Army 1st Sergeant (WWII). Second by my grandfathers and uncles and then by large and bad tempered Marines. Other than my grandfathers, I don’t think they knew much about muzzleloaders generally, but I‘m pretty sure they earned the right to be called riflemen. Ignorance, about muzzleloaders, or most anything else, isn‘t necessarily a permanent condition and the original poster shows us how with a little friendly guidance, ignorance is turned into interest.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Some years ago, someone offered me a "rusty old piece of junk" for sale. Turned out to be a Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle in .54. It didn't work and was covered with rust. I didn't know it at the time, but that rust was the factory finish. A little cleaning and adjusting and the action worked again. It is an excellent PRB shooter, though I don't often shoot it for fear of breaking something I can't replace.

Nice when people clean out the attic.

 

[ETipp]

I have a hunting buddy and long time friend who let's me shoot Doe on his hunting property for deer management. I have been trying to get him interested in BP hunting. He set with me a few years ago on a doe hunt and I shot a doe at around 100 yards and it dropped in its tracks. He was amazed and said I'm just surprised that old gun went off. We were talking about doing a management hunt this year and I told him to make it interesting and fun, I would supply the guns and items needed if he would do a "Hawken hunt" . We could get everyone there the day before and spend the whole day just shooting targets and getting everyone acquainted to the guns. They all have in-lines so shouldn't be to difficult.
He called me yesterday morning and said he was going through his gun safe and had forgotten about a muzzleloader he bought from a guy ten or so years ago. He said he actually bought two from him but he had given the flintlock away because it was broken and would not shoot. He keep the percussion because he thought it would look neat hanging in a cabin if he ever built one. He said it was a .36cal lefthanded gun and was also not working and was probably "just a piece of junk".
Squirrel season is in, I told him that I was off after 12:00 and would come over to his place and would give him my " not so expert" thoughts on the gun and if it is not broken we will shoot it and maybe try to hunt Squirrel with it . I packed up my .36 stuff and head over to his place after work. He had the supplies that came with it layed out ready to go.
Pyrodex RS
.375 balls
Caps in a capper
I told him I'm not lefthanded but before we get started if you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for this "junk". He said $175 for both guns and bag of stuff, but I knew neither gun worked and were probably just wall hangers. I told him before we get started I will give you $200 for the gun, you can keep the stuff and it will probably save you thousands in the future. He then said you think it is really worth $200! Well let's see if it will go bang and we will negotiate from there.
I checked to see if it was loaded and was clear of any obstructions, then coached him as he loaded with the supplies he had on hand, I supplied patches.
He pulls the trigger nothing. The hammer fell so slow the cap didn't even go off. We replaced the cap, still nothing. I said let's try my new caps, caps may be bad. New caps, nothing. He was ready to give up and give me the gun at this point.
I pulled the lock off and the oil on the inside looked like it had harden. I gave it a quick cleaning and new lube. And low and behold it goes poof. I could actually see the ball flying in the air it came out so slow. I then explained to him the different in Pyro and BP. And the difference in grain size and different calibers.
I then gave the gun a quick range cleaning and discovered the gun was actually a .40 cal with a Douglas barrel. The triggers were shimmed under the springs and a good breeze would set them off.
I told him I believe you have a gun that was someone's competition gun because of the way the trigger was set up.
After putting everything back together I broke out my supplies with a proper ball size for .40 cal. We shot the gun for another couple hours, by the time we were done he was hitting a 8" steel target at 100 yards. He was shocked at it's accuracy. Laughing I told him I would now double my offer to $400 and would love to have seen the piece of junk flintlock he gave away if it was anywhere near the quality of this gun.
I explained to him that he had a very fine gun and it was probably worth 5 times what he paid for both and he should be proud to own it.
He called me at 6:00 this morning and asked , hey if you run across a good "Hawken" let me know . I think I want a .54cal for deer hunting.... So his journey begins...... I reminded him that I was willing to save him thousands just yesterday and my offer stood!!!!
I did bring his gun home with me and gave it a proper cleaning. I also took out the shim from the spring so it wouldn't be such a hair trigger. Here is a picture of his "piece of Junk"View attachment 174511View attachment 174513View attachment 174514
I believe he is hooked and we will have another BP shooter.

Wowser! She's a beauty. Man, I would love to have one of those.

 

[gunnerasch]

Very nice story with a happy ending.
It does make one wonder how many times a neglected original SMR or poor boy has been thrown away because some unknowledgeable suppository shooter was of the opinion the gun was a plain looking and care worn "useless piece of junk".

I was over at a aquaintences house, showing him how to use his new to him mig welder and I happened to notice the front end of a BP rifle tucked under some lumber. I asked him about it and he said it was something his brother had and as his brother had died about 15 yrs ago, it was just collecting dust.
So I showed him some neat welding tricks and got him welding a bit better and during a break, I asked him if I could see the old club. He said sure and let me drag it out. Turned out to be an early InvestArms mountain rifle, 54 caliber, and in surprisingly good shape. It had been fired.. but not very much. When I dropped the ram rod down the barrel.. it was indeed loaded. He looked at me a bit funny and said I appeared to be a gun guy and I said was
since I was 14. When he asked if I had any.., I told him "several", and asked him if he wanted to sell the "old PB gun", he thought about it for a couple seconds and said..sure you know about gun safety and all that? I then showed him my CCW permit.. 36 yrs running so far and he brightened right up and said,, Cool.. its yours! And I have some others his brother left him I could take home too. I walked out of that house with 8 guns, for free, simply because I helped him learn to run a welder, and had brought the sodas. A few months later he came to my house and I fixed him up with extra mig wire, a better helmet and whatnot and he asked me how many guns did I have. I looked him right in the eyes and said.. with the 8 I got from you.. 117. He about pooped himself until I had to show him. I started off with all my other BP rifles and then I opened the other 3 vaults. He goes shooting with me about once a month now. He isnt interested at all in guns but hitting a gong is fun for him. And yeah.. we always bring a front stuffer when we go out. He has been asking about a CCW pistol now.. he runs a business and has been pondering. Got another convert in the works.