Pietta 1851 lockup issues

[deyolo]

Hello all this is my first post and the gun is my first muzzle loader. A little background the gun is a new(never fired) Navy arms company pietta model 1851. When I bought it the gun would not cock(hammer would revolve cylinder but not catch on trigger). I modified the finger on the cylinder bolt until it would work.

Now here is my problem when I dry fire it the cylinder will come unlocked as the hammer hits the nipple and the cylinder turns a little (completely unlocked)

If anybody could give me some insight as to what is causing this loss of lockup it would be greatly appreciated. I can indeed post pictures if requested.
Thanks

 

[deyolo]

My post was premature. I took the action apart and found that.
1. There was a cap in there (I fired off some caps for fun)
2. my cylinder stop is too wide.

 

[crockett]

Another issue you can have on the replicas is the timing. The hammer goes into full cock BEFORE the cylinder locks. NOW...when most folks cock the hammer they pull it all the way back- farther than is needed, SO...the extra movement rotates the cylinder far enough that it locks BUT if you don't do this it is possible to cock the hammer without the cylinder properly lined up/locked.
The mechanism is virtually the same as the more modern Colt Single Action Army. The only real difference is on the SSA you can look between the cylinder and frame and see when the bolt pops up but otherwise- the same. So, any book describing how to time a SSA wll work pretty good for the percussion guns.

 

[deyolo]

Thanks for the information. I've been working on it the timing is good I'm just glad I caught this problem before I actually went out and shot it I had balls cast and everything I just decided on a whim I would dry fire it for the first time.

My problem seems to be the cylinder stop is too wide for the cylinder grooves just got to sand it down a bit more.

 

[necchi]

You'll fit in well here, you've found the trouble yourself and plan on fixing it.

Take a look at the way the bolt/cylinder stop works in the action and against the cylinder.
You want to take metal off only one side.

The slots in the cylinder are usually not all the same size, if you have a caliper measure them and take the bolt down to fit the narrowest slot.

The side of the bolt that actually "stops" the cylinder should be left square and not rounded off.

 

[bpd303]

If there was a cap in the action, I would think it's not UN-fired. Also dry firing a cap & ball is very detrimental to it, something not recommended.

 

[deyolo]

The cap got in there because I was testing a replacement hammer spring to make sure it would still strike off caps. I got overzealous and started cowboying it and a cap must have made it into the action.

As for dry firing. Yep I agree but it helped me catch a problem. This time I was lucky

Will try all your suggestions in practice
Thanks all!

 

I was filming my review of the Navy. After 6 shots the gun locked up. I could not cock the gun at all. Took it home, hammered the wedge out and took the gun apart. Nothing was wrong. But it never happened again, I tell ya.

 

[M. De Land]

Working down the bolt thickness effects cylinder/barrel alignment so if it must be done be sure and check the alignment by looking down the muzzle with a goose necked auto lamp with each cylinder in full cock mode. Don't take it off the wrong side.
Bolt tops should be dressed and polished smooth with all sharp corners radiused slightly before any narrowing of the bolt body is undertaken.
Also the cylinder lock notches need the corners given the same treatment. All you want is to slightly radius and clean up any sharp or whiskered edges both on the bolt top and cylinder notches.
Bolt lift retardation is usually more important than dropping prematurely and is harder on the gun.It will manifest by leaving the back top of the notch in the cylinder peened out a bit.
This is hard on the hand/pawl nose and ratchet teeth.
If the cylinder will not lock up under normal cocking action the hand may be to short and need stretching a bit. MD

 

[Wes/Tex]

Nothing was wrong. But it never happened again, I tell ya.

It's them little green gremlins, I tell ya! :rotf:

 

[deyolo]

A little update I got the gun working just fine I went out and shot 18 shots out of it of conical ball .375 went off without a hitch.

I reshaped the grip working on inlaying some mother of pearl or something and I'm working on the brass since there are rough tool marks on it I had filled in the hammer gap and flattened it beforehand and it actually doesn't bust up the caps so bad. Also I have to reshape and reblue anything I scuffed up.

I went into this project with a 135$ gun unsure of my gamble and came out knowing a lot about single action revolvers also I have a fun gun.
Thanks for the help yall!

 

[M. De Land]

To test for proper hand length slowly cock the revolver while dragging your thumb on the cylinder body. Test for each chamber notch. If it will rotate enough to let the bolt drop fully into the notch than it is long enough. If not it needs stretching or replacing.
If it is to long it will bind the bolt against the far side of the notch and resist full cock of the hammer. MD