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Pietta Griswold & Gunnison

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AStealthyMango

32 Cal.
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Hi all, I'm considering getting into bp revolver and I'm wondering if the brass frame of the G&G replica would cause trouble. I'm a bit partial to the historically accurate confederate models which is why I'm looking @ the G&G. So tell me, how bad will the frame stretch/ loosen the arbor?



Also what smokeless round has similar ballistics (if any) to a .36 ball loaded with 15-17 grains of bp?
 
Never had one but have a brass frame colt I never had trouble with.
It's hard to do a 1:1 comparison to a blasticly superior modern arm. I would say a .25 auto, or a .22 magnum load. ???
 
It's a bit difficult to give a cartridge that's similar as they didn't use such a light weight projectile as a ball if you aren't speaking of the conicals used. The closest I'd say was the .38 S&W.
 
I have a Uberti version of the G&G, and after I got it's issues addressed, it shoots quite well with 17 gr of 3F Pyrodex or APP, and .380 round ball. Make sure you get the correct ball diameter for your Pietta, as the other 36s I have all use a .375, and the Uberti is all by itself. I found that Remington #10 caps fit the Pietta nipples the best, and I have had no issues with them on any of my revolvers.
 
What were the issues you had to fix at the beginning on your Uberti model? I have zero gunsmithing experience so I would be unable to do anything even semi-intensive.
 
Our Pietta Griswolds are some of our most favorite sixguns to shoot. They point naturally and shoot point of aim at 25 foot targets. We load with them with .375 round ball over homemade lubricated felt wad and 15 grains of Goex Olde Eynsford.

Remington #10s for stock cones, switched to Remington #11s when the cones were replaced with Track of the Wolf's cones.

Those are shot most often by my daughters and their grandfather as there is essentially no recoil and the grips are perfectly comfortable.

If you want to load it up and shoot full power, get an Uberti Leech and Rigdon instead.
 
Apparently I suffered from a lack of reading comprehension. You mentioned the light load. Maybe not too different from the .32 S&W?
 
The barrel to cylinder air gap was quite excessive. I had to remove .020 from the front of the frame to bring the gap down to .012...The hammer spring was way too light, and the gun would blow the hammer back every time, causing the cap to fall right into the frame under the hammer. That would either cause a cap jam or a fail to fire on the next shot. The loading lever would fall down almost all the time, and the original nipples were so small and short that the hammer would not hit the cap, or the caps would all fall off. I did a lot of work on it, and now it's a good reliable shooter. I used a set of Pietta nipples and made my own hammer spring. I had to "adjust" the trigger contact area after I got the hammer to stay down, so it's got about a 3# pull. Discovering the chambers were actually .375 at the mouth was the final piece to the puzzle.
 
The test results Lyman got and published in their "BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL" 2nd ed. for a .36 caliber revolver says a 15 grain charge of GOEX 3Fg gave a mv of 618 fps, 67 ft/lbs of energy.

17.5 grains = 685 fps, 82 ft/lbs
20 grains = 750 fps, 99 ft/lbs
22.5 grains = 780 fps, 107 ft/lbs

A typical .380 ACP = about 165 ft/lbs
A .38 Special = about 323 ft/lbs
A std velocity .22 RF = about 116 ft/lbs
A high velocity .22 LR = 146

That said, it brings up the subject of how important is the energy given by the calculations in producing killing power.

As everyone who hunts with a roundball knows, the killing power for of a roundball greatly exceeds the predicted expectancy based on the square of the velocity X bullet weight in grains divided by 450266.43

Squaring the velocity seems to give modern ammunition a incorrect formula for killing power.

Using the bullet weight times velocity times caliber seems to give a better description of what a bullet will do.

Using this method we get a number that doesn't have any "foot/pounds" or other description except to say it gives a good comparative value of killing power.

Using this method I get:

Std vel .22 LR = 1145 X 40 X .22 =10,076
High Vel .22 LR = 1285 X 40 X .22 = 11,308
.380 ACP = 880 X 95 X .357 = 29,845
.38 Spc = 960 X 158 X .357 = 54,150
.36 roundball @ 750 fps = 750 X 79 X .375 = 22,219.
Almost twice as powerful as a high velocity .22 and about 75% as powerful as a .380 ACP.

Even at 75% of a .380 ACP there's no way in hell I would want to get shot by one.
OK. OK folks. I'll put my button boxes away. :grin:
 
When I was working on my G&G, I shot it once, out in my garage. 15 gr of Pyrodex P and a .380 ball. Distance, about 10 feet. Went through a 2" thick phone book and through the front of my steel Craftsman tool cabinet, into one of the drawers...surprise! Tried it on a car door at 25 feet, went though the door and the door panel into the seat.
 
Direct comparisons of percussion and cartridge are tough but some interesting research was undertaken in the late 90's to compare actual "one shot knockdown" between the two.Most of the .44's got fairly high marks...even the Colt M.1860 and Remington M.1858 were found to equal .44 Special and .45 Colt SWC and HP loads in modern arms...pretty interesting. With percussion revolvers, bore diameter is king....the shock was to find .36 revolvers with the full 22 to 25 grain charges only compared to .380 HP loads in knock down. Several tests were run for verification...just proves accuracy beats power. Just ask Wild Bill. dispensing justice with a pair of .380s! :haha:

The lesser loads you suggest would probably bring in about 720 to 750 fps and energy around 60 foot/pounds...considerably lower than the .380. Fine for doinking bunnies but hardly gunfight material.
 
A .36 cb revolver may not be the best personal defense weapon. One may choose to use it for what ever reason. However a .36 ball in the body of an enemy may well stop an attack. A deer might run off with a ball in its lungs but a human can easily become incapacitated. As said I wouldn't want to be shot with one. If it's personal seeing a big hole and hearing that load clicking as cocked may send a bad guy on the run.
 
There's a fella who used 21 grns of 3F Swiss in his '61 Navy and using a .380" ball got 978 fps, and with his 100 grn conical got 923 fps. So that's 176 ft/lbs for the ball and 189 ft/lbs for the conical, and this is with just a few more grains of powder than the OP mentioned. It all depends on the powder used as I have pointed out. Swiss, Olde E, and T7 generally give no less than 100 fps of additional velocity compared to standard Goex and several other powders.
 
That is an interesting way to mathematically compare percussion to cartridges Zonie. I'll have to play with the numbers I've collected over the years with my coronagraph.

Don
 
Just think of all those who were killed with a cap and ball revolver,, if they would have only known they were not powerful enough to kill a man ,, they would still be walking around today :wink:
 
What???

Where???

I didn't see anything rodwha posted about any home made stuff.

Even the link he posted didn't have any "home made stuff" in it.

:confused:

Maybe I'm getting old or my eyesight is failing. :(
 
He likes to bring up an instance he doesn't know much about, but makes all sorts of comments and claims regardless. He doesn't seem to have much else to do but go well off topic to stir up problems. He's been doing it for a few years now. Some people are just that way I suppose. It's people like him who don't help convert people to more traditional means, but pushed them further. There's one in every bunch I guess...
 
What most folks are unaware of, including those old articles from the twentieth century, is that those old six shooters used powder far more powerful than what most folks use today.

Back in the heyday of the cap and ball sixgun, Hazard's Pistol Powder was the equivalent of today's 4F Swiss.

Now get you some of that and put it behind your ball or conical and fire up the Chronograph!

While we've yet to Chrony our guns, we have shot a few of them with 4F Swiss at 1/10th bullet weight. Our Remington Belt Model (.36) sends Kaido Conicals supersonic with an awesome CRACK! when fired! And that's just 15 grains of powder!

Our 5-1/2" Remington (.44) with a fast twist barrel hurts my hand when it sends a 240 grain Kaido Conical down range pushed along by 24 grains of 4F Swiss. 35 grains of 3F Olde Eynsford hurts about the same. Can't recall the sound of that one right now.

A properly loaded .36 caliber pistol is plenty deadly on man and game.
 
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