Pietta Remington NMA new cylinder fit problem

[user 33697]

I bought a new Pietta Remington NMA .44 cal. spare cylinder and other BP items during a close out sale from a gun shop where the owner is retiring. I cleaned the cylinder up and I was about to insert it in my Remy and it would not fit. Ugh! Out of curiosity, I got out my caliper and measured the length of the existing cylinder between the chamber face flat and rear cylinder flat as 2.018” and then measured the new cylinder as 2.021”. It appears that the extra 0.003” is causing a problem. Since I bought the cylinder at a close out, I’m stuck with it unless the cylinder can possibly be altered to fit. I’ve searched the forum and could not find how to fit a cylinder in a BP revolver. My only thought is to remove just enough material on the cylinder chamber face by sanding with 600 and 220 metal grade sand paper on a very flat surface, checking often the fit in the revolver until a feeler gauge measures o.k. as to cylinder gap, polish with crocus cloth and then re-blue. If a forum member knows what the cylinder gap should be for a Pietta NMA would be helpful. Other than what I have described as a possible fix, if any forum member has a better solution, I would be very much appreciate a reply. As a reference, my Remy was manufactured in 2016.

 

[M. De Land]

I bought a new Pietta Remington NMA .44 cal. spare cylinder and other BP items during a close out sale from a gun shop where the owner is retiring. I cleaned the cylinder up and I was about to insert it in my Remy and it would not fit. Ugh! Out of curiosity, I got out my caliper and measured the length of the existing cylinder between the chamber face flat and rear cylinder flat as 2.018” and then measured the new cylinder as 2.021”. It appears that the extra 0.003” is causing a problem. Since I bought the cylinder at a close out, I’m stuck with it unless the cylinder can possibly be altered to fit. I’ve searched the forum and could not find how to fit a cylinder in a BP revolver. My only thought is to remove just enough material on the cylinder chamber face by sanding with 600 and 220 metal grade sand paper on a very flat surface, checking often the fit in the revolver until a feeler gauge measures o.k. as to cylinder gap, polish with crocus cloth and then re-blue. If a forum member knows what the cylinder gap should be for a Pietta NMA would be helpful. Other than what I have described as a possible fix, if any forum member has a better solution, I would be very much appreciate a reply. As a reference, my Remy was manufactured in 2016.

I'd simply chuck it up in my lathe and turn off what is needed from the front of the cylinder face. Some say a little as .002 -.003 gap for both smokeless or black powder. The most precision would be to mount the cylinder between centers on each end of the base pin bore using brass center bearings . I'd turn it tight as one can always take off more. You will want to take off about .001-.002 less than will be needed and dress out the lathe tool marks on the cylinder face keeping it square and plumb so as to leave no high spots in rotation fit with the barrel breech. Smoothing/dressing off the cylinder face makes it less able to catch fouling.
The trouble with doing it by hand on a sheet of glass covered with sand paper is keeping the face true and plumb. This is much more precisely done in a lathe while rotating in the head stock.

 

[M. De Land]

I'd simply chuck it up in my lathe and turn off what is needed from the front of the cylinder face. Some say a little as .002 -.003 gap for both smokeless or black powder. The most precision would be to mount the cylinder between centers on each end of the base pin bore using brass center bearings . I'd turn it tight as one can always take off more. You will want to take off about .001-.002 less than will be needed and dress out the lathe tool marks on the cylinder face keeping it square and plumb so as to leave no high spots in rotation fit with the barrel breech. Smoothing/dressing off the cylinder face makes it less able to catch fouling.
The trouble with doing it by hand on a sheet of glass covered with sand paper is keeping the face true and plumb. This is much more precisely done in a lathe while rotating in the head stock.

I've had two poor experiences with replacement cylinders. On my Pietta 58 of 80's vintage the second cylinder makes the gun shoot to a different point of aim than does the original although it carries up and locks correctly. This is caused by a slightly different chamber alignment lock up with the bore how ever both cylinders make pretty good individual groups.
The second is a 62 Police made my Uberti that has the bolt nocks out of time with the ratchet so when locked the chambers are out of bore alignment. I've not figured out a remedy for this situation, if there is one.

 

[45D]

If you don't have a lathe, I'd start with 220 grit on glass and hold the cylinder firm and flat. Use a figure-8 motion ( aircraft machinist taught me that). Turn it about 1/3 and repeat.
As MDL said, start with what will get it in the frame, you can always take off more.

Mike

 

[Blackpowderart]

I've had two poor experiences with replacement cylinders. On my Pietta 58 of 80's vintage the second cylinder makes the gun shoot to a different point of aim than does the original although it carries up and locks correctly.
The second is a 62 Police made my Uberti that has the bolt nocks out of time with the ratchet so when locked the chambers are out of bore alignment. I've not figured out a remedy for this situation, if there is one.

Same with my pocket police, although slightly and not a problem, just bother me when I look at it, alot

 

[M. De Land]

Same with my pocket police, although slightly and not a problem, just bother me when I look at it, alot

My new cylinder is so far out of alignment I'd have to modify the bolt and frame window to make it work course then the original cylinder wouldn't work.
I guess I could fill one side of each nock with a soldered in heat treated shim and mill out a bit on the other side of each one for bolt clearance to correct the timing but what a "goat rope" for a second cylinder I would rarely use.
Apparently later models have moved the window/bolt positioning a bit, I'd hate to think it just louse machine work !

 

[Blackpowderart]

@M. De Land yes tht at would be more bothersome, would they not take it back from where you purchased it

 

[user 33697]

If you don't have a lathe, I'd start with 220 grit on glass and hold the cylinder firm and flat. Use a figure-8 motion ( aircraft machinist taught me that). Turn it about 1/3 and repeat.
As MDL said, start with what will get it in the frame, you can always take off more.

Mike

Mike

As I don't have a lathe or a friend that has one, your suggestion is best for me. I have hand tooled small metal parts before such as brass, aluminum and steel to fit into something with success and the figue-8 method sounds like an excellent idea in keeping a conformal flat surface on the cylinder.

 

[M. De Land]

@M. De Land yes tht at would be more bothersome, would they not take it back from where you purchased it

I've not tried sending it back but I should I suppose. Got so many gun projects going in the fire I tend to move on to the next that bugs me the most. Black powder revolvers interest me and are fun to work on and shoot but mostly I build black powder rifles for match work both cartridge and muzzle loading.
I get a idea to try, build the rifle, shoot it for a while, stack it in the corner and start another. It's a kind of neurosis apparently ! Odd how if a design is not at least 100-150 years old they bore me. Modern guns sort of make me yawn !

 

[user 33697]

If you don't have a lathe, I'd start with 220 grit on glass and hold the cylinder firm and flat. Use a figure-8 motion ( aircraft machinist taught me that). Turn it about 1/3 and repeat.
As MDL said, start with what will get it in the frame, you can always take off more.

Mike

Mike

Took me about 15 minutes of work to sand off just the right amount of metal and polish to a mirror finish the cylinder face. The cylinder easily installs in my Remy just like the original cylinder. More importantly, my feeler gauge measured a 0.006" cylinder gap which is the same as the original cylinder. Additionally, the metal that I removed did not alter the depth much of the chamfers for all the chamber holes, arbor hole and outer cylinder rim significantly. All that's left is to blue the cylinder face. Thanks again for your gunsmithing advice.

 

[45D]

Mike

Took me about 15 minutes of work to sand off just the right amount of metal and polish to a mirror finish the cylinder face. The cylinder easily installs in my Remy just like the original cylinder. More importantly, my feeler gauge measured a 0.006" cylinder gap which is the same as the original cylinder. Additionally, the metal that I removed did not alter the depth much of the chamfers for all the chamber holes, arbor hole and outer cylinder rim significantly. All that's left is to blue the cylinder face. Thanks again for your gunsmithing advice.


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That is awesome sir!!! Great job!!

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Mike

Took me about 15 minutes of work to sand off just the right amount of metal and polish to a mirror finish the cylinder face. The cylinder easily installs in my Remy just like the original cylinder. More importantly, my feeler gauge measured a 0.006" cylinder gap which is the same as the original cylinder. Additionally, the metal that I removed did not alter the depth much of the chamfers for all the chamber holes, arbor hole and outer cylinder rim significantly. All that's left is to blue the cylinder face. Thanks again for your gunsmithing advice.


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Looks great, nice job! I always think Ruger could clean up the bottoms and gain a few more grains of capacity.

 

[Steven Van Kauwenbergh]

This is off the subject area but, I have a problem that you folks with experience with Pietta Remington 44 Old Army revolvers might give me some insight on. It's the target model with adjustable sights. I bought the revolver from Dixie Gun Works. Last weekend I fired it for the first time firing two cylinders out of it. I had replaced the nipples with stainless Slix-Shot nipples. The load was 22 gr. GOEX FFF, Hornady swaged .454 round balls, a suitable lubricant recipe using beeswax, Crisco, neatsfoot oil and olive oil adjusted for firmness filling the ends of the cylinders, and CCI caps.
Fired 2 groups off a Ransom Rest at 20 yards (not the fancy one with inserts.) I've been doing this for 40+ years with revolvers with good results. Groups are about 9" high, about 5" center to center, and about 4" to the right. To lower the groups the rear sight needs to go down but it's bottomed from the factory. The front sight needs filing.
I cleaned the gun and when cocking the hammer and looking down the rear frame of the revolver the cylinder is not square in the frame. This is very apparent with the stainless nipples in the cylinder. The cylinder is definitely "cocked" in the frame. A buddy who shoots BP revolvers looked at it and he said it does't look right.
Before I bought the gun I called my younger brother who has been participating in Civil War shooting matches all over the country for about 50 years and has owned numerous BP revolvers, rifles, a cannon and several morters. He said he owns the exact same Pietta revolver and it's the most accurate revolver he owns. I've watched numerous videos on the internet using the same revolvers without adjustable sights and they get 2-2 1/2 " groups at 20 yards and sometimes better.
Has anyone experienced something like this before? I'm really disappointed in this revolver. What other problems could be causing the gun to shoot like this? I sent the revolver back to Dixie for their gunsmith to look at it yesterday. Hopefully they will get back to me soon.
SJVK

 

[VAN]

I bought a new Pietta Remington NMA .44 cal. spare cylinder and other BP items during a close out sale from a gun shop where the owner is retiring. I cleaned the cylinder up and I was about to insert it in my Remy and it would not fit. Ugh! Out of curiosity, I got out my caliper and measured the length of the existing cylinder between the chamber face flat and rear cylinder flat as 2.018” and then measured the new cylinder as 2.021”. It appears that the extra 0.003” is causing a problem. Since I bought the cylinder at a close out, I’m stuck with it unless the cylinder can possibly be altered to fit. I’ve searched the forum and could not find how to fit a cylinder in a BP revolver. My only thought is to remove just enough material on the cylinder chamber face by sanding with 600 and 220 metal grade sand paper on a very flat surface, checking often the fit in the revolver until a feeler gauge measures o.k. as to cylinder gap, polish with crocus cloth and then re-blue. If a forum member knows what the cylinder gap should be for a Pietta NMA would be helpful. Other than what I have described as a possible fix, if any forum member has a better solution, I would be very much appreciate a reply. As a reference, my Remy was manufactured in 2016.

My Pietta 1858 Remington .44 was made in 2020. The spare cylinder I ordered from muzzle-loaders.com just came in. It dropped in and worked perfectly. It was the only place I found one for $64 in stock with fast free shipping too.