Pipe tomahawk

[Pierre du Plessis]

Were pipe tomahawks commonly used on the frontier? I guess what I'm asking is, would they have been much used by longhunters and white hunters as a general purpose ax or as an ax for combat (using undrilled handles), or did they have more of a special status?

Many thanks!

 

[Claude Mathis]

As I've said before, and speaking only as an "end user", I always thought the pipe hawk embodied the worst of both worlds - not a good or practical pipe, nor a strong, useful tomahawk (hatchet/ax). IMHO
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/236418

 

[BrownBear]

...embodied the worst of both worlds - not a good or practical pipe, nor a strong, useful tomahawk (hatchet/ax). IMHO

My experience pretty well bears that out. Some years back I convinced myself I had to have one. Got the head and handle and went to work, fully intending to use it.

Smoked it a few times and wasn't real happy with that. But I'm yet to swing it. That handle feels like it's going to break the first time the head lands home, whether wood or bone.

 

[crockett]

Depends on what you mean by "common". They existed and are therefore PC. I can remember some story of a long hunter or mountain man with one that an NDN wanted and said to give it to him or he would sneak back and steal it any way (which I think he did). The "tomahawks" carried my the Revolutionary War riflemen were like the poll-less style thrown at modern Rondy events- one is on display at Valley Forge (or was). The mountain men used small hatchets for trapping. My personal feeling is that the leader of a trapping party or a "sport" visiting the area might have carried one and they might have been trade items for the NDNs. I agree about the "worst of both" aspect.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The "tomahawks" carried my the Revolutionary War riflemen were like the poll-less style thrown at modern Rondy events-

Depends on which side's riflemen we are talking about... the standard British Light Infantry Axe which was issued to lights and riflemen, was a polled 'hawk.

Hey I'm not called "Loyalist" Dave for nuthin' :grin:

GOD SAVE THE KING!
LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

The "tomahawks" carried my the Revolutionary War riflemen were like the poll-less style

Not always. Riflemen were volunteers who usually brought their own equipment and/or had it made along the way. I have seen many references to the spiked hawk, very similar to a boarding axe, as being a 'Riflemans tomahawk'.

Where is the pic? Try again.

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[crockett]

I agree, nothing etched in stone. But no pipe hawks- I think.
I am told that when you "whack" I mean strike or hit something, that two forces exert upon the handle, compression and tension, the handle wants to bend upon impact. The outside of this bend wants to tear part- tension, while the inside wants to compress and dead center there is a neutral area so.....according to the theory drilling a hole in the center of the handle should not weaken it that much.
Well, regardless of the theory, the pipe hawk handles never seem as strong to me as a solid handle.

 

[BrownBear]

...according to the theory drilling a hole in the center of the handle should not weaken it that much.

Might be true, but a handle less than an inch in diameter is still a handle less than an inch in diameter. That skinny little thing is going to break easier than a thick one, hole or not.

 

[Brokennock]

Actually, if I understand things correctly, the tube should be stronger than the solid stick. Something about two opposing arches. Tubular arrow shafts are generally stronger than solid, and can be made lighter yet stiffer by using a thinner wall but larger o.d.

 

[BrownBear]

I can see that for uniform materials like aluminum, fiberglass or carbon. Heck, even river cane probably qualifies.

But for holes drilled through variable material like wood? Not on my watch.

Someone other than me is going to have to test it on their own pipe hawk they spent their own money on and invested their own sweat in building. My pipe hawk is a wall hanger, whether actually on a wall or on a belt.

 

[tenngun]

I have to say the ones traded and carried don't look like they were made to be used to cut wood or dismember deer. Instead used to cut men. Swung into a chest belly or thigh would create a disabiling wound with one blow. Swung just a few times in life but smoked often. Comparable to a fine sword, usable for war but moreoften worn as a mark of rank or ablity.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Actually, if I understand things correctly, the tube should be stronger than the solid stick. Something about two opposing arches. Tubular arrow shafts are generally stronger than solid, and can be made lighter yet stiffer by using a thinner wall but larger o.d.

Believe all that if you wish. Nothing is strengthened by removing material. Same with those expensive modern rifle barrels that are fluted. Sold as more rigid. They aren't. Lighter and dissapate heat better but, more rigid they ain't.

 

[bpd303]

Just finished an article in American Archeologist about pipe hawks. They were mostly ceremonial, used by the plains Indians.

 

[Brokennock]

While I still think the argument can be made, by folks smarter than me, that a tube is stronger in some ways (and weaker in others) than solid sticks,,,, I would agree that pipe hawks were probably mostly for ceremony and symbolism. Smoked occasionly, used as a weapon rarely, as a woods tool for cutting wood and bone probably never.

 

[bpd303]

Got to thinking (I know dangerous) about the article, so I looked it up again. It was about very early tobacco use and the reference was about peace pipes, no mention of hawks, so I haven't a clue about them.

 

[Claude Mathis]

While I still think the argument can be made, by folks smarter than me, that a tube is stronger in some ways (and weaker in others) than solid sticks,,,

Take a solid metal rod.
Drill a hole threw it, lengthwise, turning it into a pipe.
Which is easier to bend/break? (Yes, I know the hole in a pipe hawk is smaller - so what?)

 

[Kylongrifle]

If its a high figured curly handle the hole is the least to worry about. Many curly handles are very weak because the curl cuts across the grain. Though in fairness Ive seen guys use curly handled hawks and bag axes for years with no problems. A straight grain handle like hickory or ash isn't that weak with a 1/4" hole through it.I know that from exp. Weaker than a solid handle, Id say yes but Id bet it would surprise you how much it can take.

 

[Zonie]

Just some thoughts about the grain in curly wood:

Any wood can be curly. Most people think of maple but walnut, cherry, ash, or a lot of other woods can have curl.

The grain fibers in curly wood run the full length of the wood, just like wood without curl does, with one difference.

Rather than being straight like regular wood, the grain in curly wood grows in a wavelike manner.

Take a look at my sketch below and notice how the fibers weave back and forth.



People who have worked with wood know that the end grain on a board readily soaks up a stain and doing so always makes it darker than the wood on the face of the board. Keep this in mind as you read on.

Because the grain is wavy on curly wood, every place a wave in the grain is cut off as it meets the surface, a small amount of its end grain is exposed.
This exposed end grain absorbs the stain easily.
On a good piece of curly wood, this will make a dark stripe that is perpendicular to the actual grain of the board.

In the areas where the grain is running parallel with the surface, the wood absorbs the stain just like a straight grained wood does making this area look lighter.
This will make a light stripe of wood that is perpendicular to boards grain direction.


Because the actual end of a piece of curly wood is just showing its end grain, it will never look curly or striped.

Knowing this, one can see why a piece of curly wood is no weaker than a piece of straight grained wood.
It sure is more interesting to look at though.

 

[crockett]

On the hole through the handle aspect. Well it has to be a small hole. It is fair to argue that in order for the handle to break (snap) that the bend of the handle, the inside is in compression and the outside in traction and dead center is neutral. The problem is that may be fine with cane, etc. but when there is grain to the wood and grain run out, etc.- then I don't know.
Years ago this plumber was running a pipe through floor joists and was drilling the holes dead center which I thought would be the worst location but he told me about the neutral dead center.
So....a hole through the center of a pipe tomahawk, if it is only a 1/8" hole it probably is neutral or weakens the handle just slightly.
And....while on this topic. I have a brass pipe tomahawk. It was sort of a piece of junk but something I could play around with so I took a file and dressed up all the lines but a brass edge? I've been thinking about a steel bit insert but not sure how doable such a job is or how pc. And I tried smoking the thing- really bad, lousy pipe, lousy hawk- but it looks real neat. :grin:

 

[Brokennock]

Otzi had a copper ax or hatchet. Just something to consider.