Pistol Twist Rate

[Glenfilthie]

I fear I have been somewhat lazy in my pistoleering - I have been having so much fun just shooting the stupid gun that I haven't really taken any time to experiment!

Fellas, we all know some black powder rifles have twist rates for conicals and then twist rates for round ball.

What is the Colt 1860 meant to shoot? Can anyone recommend a good mold? I have a Lee for throwing .457 round ball...do I need another mold?

 

[necchi]

Forum member duelist1954 has put together several very infomative videos on this topic of projectiles and other revolver stuff, really worth watching; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0xA71_PwHQ

The Colt manual states to use a .457 ball,,

 

[Musketeer]

Great vids. I thought there'd be more difference between the RB and the first conical. I assume he was shooting .454 balls in the vid, since he describes them as 140gr. Pure .454s are 141 and .457s are like 144. My Uberti 1860 likes the .454s. I've never bothered with conicals for the reason he states in the vid (not enough room to load with cylinder in gun).

 

[aeatwood]

Since the velocity is much lower out of pistols, the rifling twist is not as critical. Original Colts had gain twist. It started slow and got progressively faster as you moved toward the muzzle.

IIRC, most Colts shipped w/ either conical moulds, or double cavity moulds that cast a ball and a conical.

As a practical matter, it is much easier to get balls to shoot in a C&B revolver. That is what I recommend starting with. Conicals can shoot well, and in some cases superbly. The are harder to cast well and they are very dependent on lube quality, sizing, alloy, and alignment during loading. Sort that out and they can shoot VERY well. Some have reported excellent results w/ the Lee conical moulds right off the bat w/ Crisco, pure lead, and loading on the gun, others not so much.

Conicals will also generally hit a bit higher than the RB's at short range on paper.

 

[nkbj]

For loading conicals, some percussion revolvers have adequate frame clearance at the front of the cylinder and some do not. That's the biggie on loading a bullet that doesn't start life as a sphere. On some Pietta 1851 replicas .44's you pretty much have roll the ball on to the hole! On some others there is plenty of room, the revolver being made in replica of the original designs, larger space to load the bullets of greater weight.

I use both round ball and elongated bullets with percussion revolvers, having found both to work well when loaded properly. That "loaded properly" part counts a lot with a bullet design that demands care be taken with alignment. The advantage to round ball is of course that it is self-aligning. Getting alignment with elongated bullets is something requiring care to achieve. The best solution I've found is to make a bullet that aligns itself (mimicking how a maxi ball and Lee REAL works); backside just slips in and in front shears off, same as the original Colt bullets. An important element of the Colt molds is that the bullet provides alignment. It can be made even better by moving the alignment ring further forward. After all, they needed a pointy projectile to assist in punching through layers of clothing and I don't.
For general plinking a round ball is very convenient and works just as well in a percussion revolver as in a cartridge.

 

[Dphar]

I fear I have been somewhat lazy in my pistoleering - I have been having so much fun just shooting the stupid gun that I haven't really taken any time to experiment!

Fellas, we all know some black powder rifles have twist rates for conicals and then twist rates for round ball.

What is the Colt 1860 meant to shoot? Can anyone recommend a good mold? I have a Lee for throwing .457 round ball...do I need another mold?

Shoot the RB. Twist is not relevant since there is not patch to shred. The originals were a gain twist. The moulds came with conical and RB cavities and the pistols will shoot either.
In my experience Colt open tops can shoot loose with a diet of conicals. The very pointed originals conical greatly reduces powder capacity and is too pointed to be good for much other than poking holes in paper.

Dan

 

[curator]

As several of the posts mention, the original Colts had gain-twist rifling and were designed for both conical bullets and round ball. The Colt-designed bullet mould cast both a round ball and a "heeled" conical slug. The "heel" on the conical was chamber diameter and the forward portion larger to seal the chamber as it was seated with the loading lever. This made alignment easy. Lee Precision sells cap & ball conical moulds in both .38 and .44/45 calibers that are made with the rebated heel. Unfortunately, some manufacturers of modern replica revolvers make them with a rifling twist rate too slow to shoot conicals well. A good twist rate for the .36 Navy would be 1 in 16" Not the commonly available 1 in 32". The .44 Army should be rifled with a twist rate of 1 in 18" to shoot conical bullets accurately at sub-sonic speeds. My Pietta 1860 Army has a 1 in 32" twist but my Uberti 1849 Army Dragoon has a 1 in 18" twist. Check your revolver's specs before investing in a bullet mould that won't work for you.

 

[crockett]

I'm not sure what you mean by "Meant" to shoot but Sam Colt patented several styles of combustible cartridges loaded with conicals almost as early as the development of the revolver itself- so from the very beginning they were meant to shoot either a round ball or conical. The original conicals were not very well designed- the driving band- the part in contact with the bore- was short so as to easily load however the concial could get twisted out of allignment as it was being seated- which made for poor accuracy. Today the conicals are better designed. On the Colt Navy 1851 the loading port is very small and it is not easy to load some conicals. The original conicals had a rebated rim around the base to which a combustible cartridge shell was affixed.
As stated- round balls are usually the most accuracte. The conical takes up more space in the chamber which means less powder so there is sort of a trade off- you can cram a lot more powder into the chamber when shooting a ball. The western lawman could use either but preferred maximum powder charges and a ball. Combustible ammo was for emergency, back up use.
On the twist, it probably doesn't make much difference but the conventional thought it that the twist in a pistol needs to be faster than in a rifle, even for shooting as round ball. The science behind why I don't know.