Please Help to Identify smooth bore flintlock......Thanks!!!

[Lamorte12]

Having trouble finding any info at all

 

[Conquerordie]

Do you know what caliber it is? Do you have a picture of the buttplate tang? Thanks.

 

[Lamorte12]

No idea on the caliber but cannot find any markings but the one shown in the pic. I have added pics of the tang

 

[Conquerordie]

My guess is a British fusil, military style, but maybe shortened at some point in it's life. Nice stepped barrel.

 

[BoomStick]

English commercial sporting gun. Kibler's Fowler takes its design elements from guns like these made between 1750-1800. Probably shortened, but it doesn't look like a military gun to me.

@dave_person could probably give a better assessment.

 

[Lamorte12]

My guess is a British fusil, military style, but maybe shortened at some point in it's life. Nice stepped barrel.

Thank you for the help

 

[SDSmlf]

Looks like someone polished the history off that barrel.

 

[Lamorte12]

I was thinking the same but hoping not

 

[PathfinderNC]

With that brass nose cap and the 3 or 4 inches of bare barrel, I would venture it is a military carbine. Perhaps an officers carbine or personal Fusil? (The front sight or bayonet lug appears missing?)
My uneducated guess is British. A close up if the lock would be great. It has an unbridled pan which might indicate an early gun.
It’s lovely, actually.

 

[Lamorte12]

I have attached the pics thanks again in advance for all the help. This one has me confused

 

[PathfinderNC]

I replied to your other thread:

I just noticed it has a 3 stage barrel. Jim Kibler explained these were often found on mid- grade export Fowing pieces from England. The engraving isn’t very fine and the thumb piece is off- center. Lack of proof marks might support its being made for export.
Proportionally it looks like a cut down Fowler to me. But having an iron ramrod that seems to fit the pipes (wooden ramrods were thicker) is another curiosity. I don’t know if Fowlers ever were equipped with iron or steel rammers?
It has no front sight. Also, a curiosity is the long exposed barrel with a brass nose cap, which makes me thing a for- military conversion?
Finally the lock is unbridled which could mean an early piece.
One other possibility might be a lower grade private purchase military carbine.
It looks like it’s in wonderful condition and hope your search for info on it is fruitful.
I also hope Dave Person gives it a look over.

 

[Rudyard]

With the effort put into the mounts its odd if it has an unbridled steel (most call a frizzen ) first glance ime thinking a 'commercial' for some vollunteer house hold /.Estate Or Might be made in the Colonies by migrant arizans hence no proofs & no Bridle .

I mean WE make guns up' one man band 'style as we don't have much option (Besides Mr Kibler &' The Emperor of lock mechanics ' Jim Chambers )

Looks like someone polished the history off that barrel.

Sure did Bit of an oddity with No proofs All guns had to be proofed only Scotland didn't have too at one stage If its a mystery its a nice enough one the glare will mellow down or re brown. Do I see a name on the lock plate ? If the Bayonet boss has been removed mayhap the tell tale evident remains "little cuts & a hint of braze ? at the end of the day the customer is all way's right even if he's a blithering idiot ! Rudyard's museings

 

[Lamorte12]

With that brass nose cap and the 3 or 4 inches of bare barrel, I would venture it is a military carbine. Perhaps an officers carbine or personal Fusil? (The front sight or bayonet lug appears missing?)
My uneducated guess is British. A close up if the lock would be great. It has an unbridled pan which might indicate an early gun.
It’s lovely, actually.

Thank you for the help

 

[Lamorte12]

With the effort put into the mounts its odd if it has an unbridled steel (most call a frizzen ) first glance ime thinking a 'commercial' for some vollunteer house hold /.Estate Or Might be made in the Colonies by migrant arizans hence no proofs & no Bridle .

I mean WE make guns up' one man band 'style as we don't have much option (Besides Mr Kibler &' The Emperor of lock mechanics ' Jim Chambers )

Sure did Bit of an oddity with No proofs All guns had to be proofed only Scotland didn't have too at one stage If its a mystery its a nice enough one the glare will mellow down or re brown. Do I see a name on the lock plate ? If the Bayonet boss has been removed mayhap the tell tale evident remains "little cuts & a hint of braze ? at the end of the day the customer is all way's right even if he's a blithering idiot ! Rudyard's museings

Thank you for the help

 

[Lamorte12]

With the effort put into the mounts its odd if it has an unbridled steel (most call a frizzen ) first glance ime thinking a 'commercial' for some vollunteer house hold /.Estate Or Might be made in the Colonies by migrant arizans hence no proofs & no Bridle .

I mean WE make guns up' one man band 'style as we don't have much option (Besides Mr Kibler &' The Emperor of lock mechanics ' Jim Chambers )

Sure did Bit of an oddity with No proofs All guns had to be proofed only Scotland didn't have too at one stage If its a mystery its a nice enough one the glare will mellow down or re brown. Do I see a name on the lock plate ? If the Bayonet boss has been removed mayhap the tell tale evident remains "little cuts & a hint of braze ? at the end of the day the customer is all way's right even if he's a blithering idiot ! Rudyard's museings

Thank you for the help

 

[Conquerordie]

Looks like it has a neat repair on the hammer, under the screw. Must have been loose at one point.

 

[Rudyard]

Looks like it has a neat repair on the hammer, under the screw. Must have been loose at one point.

If you not talking about the' Steel 'the other S shape is called a' Cock ' its not a' Hammer '& the Steel was by some called a 'Hammer' ',Battery & a' Hen'at some periods ..Logically enough. Which is that Rudyard being penicaty .But we don't call the lock an' action' or a 'platform'. I've thumbed back enough of them in my life to know.
Once that meddling clergy man came up along with others with percussion ignition the Cock then becomes in effect a ' Hammer '& no more farmyard animals enter our nomenclature .
Oh Except if your given to go fooling with' Dog' locks That's a slippery slope all together a rabbit hole that leads us to fanciful' Serpentines', 'Dragon muzzles ' The Neat stuff.
PS the screw is a 'Tumbler pin'.
Pernicaty Rudyard

 

[Lamorte12]

Cant thank you gentlemanenough

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Having trouble finding any info at all

No idea on the caliber but cannot find any markings but the one shown in the pic. I have added pics of the tang

Go to Holts auction Norfolk uk , or for past auction type into google. They have great archives but the other year they added a considerable ££££charge to see the files So you have go the long way search now , I can find most thing. Like “ .65 smooth bore at holts auction uk “ They have agents all over Europe and further So if it’s from
Europe you should find iys brother or sister

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Having trouble finding any info at all

EG Holts uk

Sorry photos did not cut in place but guess you have the Holts search idea now


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December 2023 Sealed Bid Auction



1
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Lot 2013
7 Dec 2023
A .695 FLINTLOCK COLONIAL MUSKET, no visible serial number,

Sold for £90
£80 - 120
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Lot 2019
7 Dec 2023
A 14-BORE FLINTLOCK SINGLE BARREL SPORTING GUN SIGNED TWIGG, no visible serial number,

Sold for £588
£350 - 550
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Lot 2020
7 Dec 2023
AN 18MM FLINTLOCK DANISH-NORWEGIAN ALTERED MODEL 1769-1841 RIFLED MUSKET, no visible serial,

Sold for £220
£200 - 300
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Lot 2038
7 Dec 2023
A 28-BORE INDO PERSIAN FLINTLOCK RIFLED JEZAIL WITH SIND STOCK, no visible serial number,

Unsold
£150 - 250
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Lot 2066
7 Dec 2023
A 32-BORE FLINTLOCK MOROCCAN JEZAIL, no visible serial number,

Unsold
£100 - 200
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Lot 2081
7 Dec 2023
A LOT OF TWO INDIAN TORADOR TYPE MUSKETS, no visible serial numbers,

Sold for £75
£70 - 90
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Lot 2083
7 Dec 2023
A 20-BORE FLINTLOCK DOUBLE-BARRELLED SPORTING-GUN SIGNED CONWAY, no visible serial number,

Sold for £500
£500 - 800
Lot Detail
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Lot 2087
7 Dec 2023
AN 18-BORE FLINTLOCK DOUBLE-BARRELLED SPORTING GUN SIGNED SYKES, OXFORD, no visible serial number,

Sold for £425
£300 - 500
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Lot 2098
7 Dec 2023
A CONTINENTAL 11-BORE FLINTLOCK SPORTING MUSKET, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,

Sold for £205
£100 - 150
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Lot 2099
7 Dec 2023
A UNITED STATES .69 FLINTLOCK MUSKET MODEL 1795 SPRINGFIELD, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,

Unsold
£400 - 600
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Lot 2100
7 Dec 2023
A CONTINENTAL 10-BORE FLINTLOCK SPORTING GUN, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,

Sold for £111
£80 - 120
Lot Detail
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Lot 2101
7 Dec 2023
AN 8-BORE INDIAN MATCHLOCK WALL-GUN, serial no. JPR/EXP 2/6350,

Unsold
£100 - 200
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Lot 2110
7 Dec 2023
A BELGIAN 18-BORE FLINTLOCK SPORTING MUSKET SIGNED T.S.M. BE., no visible serial number,

Sold for £200
£200 - 300
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Lot 2111
7 Dec 2023
AN INDIAN 14-BORE TORADOR MATCHLOCK MUSKET, serial no. JPR/EXR/ 2/6814,

Unsold
£70 - 120
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Lot 2112
7 Dec 2023
AN 11-BORE RELIC FLINTLOCK FOWLING-PIECE, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,

Sold for £162
£150 - 250
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Lot 2115
7 Dec 2023
A 20-BORE FLINTLOCK COLONIAL TRADE-MUSKET SIGNED WARRANTED, no visible serial number,

Sold for £180
£180 - 220
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Lot 2138
7 Dec 2023
AN 8-BORE FLINTLOCK BOER BOBBEJAANBOUD (BABOONS THIGH) SPORTING-MUSKET SIGNED LONDON, no visible serial number,

Sold for £200
£200 - 300
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Lot 2160
7 Dec 2023
A RELIC .740 CONTINENTAL FLINTLOCK MUSKET, no visible serial number,

Sold for £59
£20 - 40
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Lot 2164
7 Dec 2023
A LARGER INDIAN TORADOR 12-BORE MATCHLOCK MUSKET or WALL-GUN, serial no 3764,

Unsold
£150 - 250
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Lot 2167
7 Dec 2023
AN UNSIGNED 10-BORE FLINTLOCK FOWLING-PIECE, MISSING LOCK, no visible serial number,

Sold for £74
£70 - 90
Lot Detail
1




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