Please tell me, what was this rifle before it got "decorated"

[Nor Cal Mikie]

yes, but remember THAT UGLY GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE BONE!!!

Beauty stands out in a crowd but UGLY stands alone.

At one time that gun was someone’s pride and joy; tastes vary.

 

[SamTex1949]

heck it will lose 10lbs when all the brass is off

 

[rickystl]

LOL!! Well, this looks like a fun Thread. Two questions: 1) What is the length of the barrel and approximate caliber ? 2) It appears the barrel is held to the fore stock with two brass bands. If so, can you take a photo of each band ? Is there any evidence that the barrel was previously held to the stock with pins ?
Based on the photos and the Belgium proof marks on the barrel, I'm guessing this gun started life as one of the many trade muskets, built using a variety of surplus and/or new parts, for the export market. And they were indeed shipped everywhere.

Just a couple years ago there was another - very similar musket - with a profuse amount of brass tacks that went to auction. I'll see if I can locate the photo. It was thought that the gun somehow spent life in the Congo area of Africa since there were tribes there that often decorated their war clubs and knife/sword sheaths with the same mass amount of brass tacks. Cold be.

In search for a lock, the tracing paper might be a good place to start.

Rick

 

[Sooty Scot]

Vintage square shank tacks? I'd ease them out to sell separately. There must be enough for a dozen Indian Trade Muskets/Rifles.
I should also make it easier to identify the base weapon.
Even plugging all those pinholes with contrasting slivers would look better, imho.

Seriously, as an antique it should be maintained and restored but, even if the barrel is sound, I agree with Packrat. Anyone beaded would face a hazard firing it. Hurts just to consider.

 

[AZ Muzzleloaders]

I have a beard, I would be afraid to shoot it as it would pull all the hairs out of my pretty face

I know Packrat and his face is NOT pretty, but at least the beard covers up some of his face.

 

[Rudyard]

Firstly any notion of removing the tacks would be pure vandleism . & it might pay to check if that robbed lock isn't still about from the source . Just reflect if this was a NA Indian gun no matter how abused it would be eagerlly sought & priced accordingly .No thought of makeing a lamp standard from it . When I was twenty I hitched & travelled through West Africa from Northern Mali into Ivory Coast Libeira , Siera Leone back through to Ghana,Togoland Dahhomy ' Nigeria' The East & West Cammeroons but due to the perpetual wars in Congo I couldn't get through & ended up on Fernando Po a delightfully tranquil Spanish Colony apart from the heat & humidity & working for a whole 100 Pts a day ere I had enough to take the Troop & supply ship' Ciudad de Oviado' back to Cadiz. and limped (Sometimes literally) up through Spain into France & the port of Bouloine The only inside sleep was a Guardia Civil lock up in Vittoria & crashing in a youth Hostle near Bayonne . The lock up wasn't manned just the place they chucked drunks in to cool off bit like a Western set & sure enough they threw a drunk in who ranted on as such fellows will till I gave him a scungey blanket & told him to pipe down .We got turfed out at a wet dawn but it was a welcome roof to me . I didn't even have a sleeping bag, ditched it long ago on the West Coast .Ten mouths trip . But I examined many relic trade guns and locally made' Dane' guns . Later on I got a Flint lock made by a noted Nigerian maker (Or at least written about in a Guns & Ammo article written by Paul Adamson ) had it years then finding some 5/8th galved water pipe I stocked it up in Shedua a West African wood . I believe the bands are ex jam or butter tins except the two that bore ' one cup' &' two cups' that came from a flour sifter .Nice touch I thought . Rod was the typical No 8 fence wire Africans make toys of such wire , the photo shews it if only the lock is ' Genuine Jimmo Babatunde of Ikorudu lorry park fame' . Yes its ugly but it works fine .I proofed it in a rabbit hole then bowled a bunny and that all its done other than to serve as an example . The dangleing ammulettes are typical and seem to vary in number commensurate to the quality of the barrels they contain magic charms to ward of evil spirits ( allway's troublesome entitis on the Coast ) Togalosis type nuisance's you understand. & related to Australian Bunyips I gather . However I digress .Point being its wrong to disparage such guns just because you don't understand them pass it onto Ricksie do you both a favour .
Regards Rudyard

Pic's later to follow the above. R

 

[Tenring]

It may be a Tactical Rifle , Get it. I know that was pretty bad Hu…

 

[Mangonboat]

Brass tacks were a prominent trade good during European colonial expansion in the 18th and 19th centuries. Indeed, one of the most valuable ( recently sold for over $150,000) and most studied historical guns in the US is Suhtaio Cheyenne Chief Black Kettle's Sharps carbine - decorated with elaborate designs in brass tacks https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/28189/24628308_1.jpg?v=8D37C4272F0A070. General George Armstrong Custer took possession of the rifle after Black Kettle was shot down by troops of the 7th US Cavalry as Black Kettle and Medicine Woman were trying to flee across the Washita River . It was passed down in Custer's family. Interpreting the Brass Tack and Other Patterns on the Custer Capture Sharps Carbine A Work in Progress Fred N. Holabird and - War Horse - Document - PDFSEARCH.IO - Document Search Engine.

East African and South African knobkerries, small clubs carried by African warriors, were commonly decorated with brass tacks, as were Native American round-head clubs. This 19th century Moroccan powder flask is in the Peabody Museum at Harvard University. Clearly, indigenous peoples were quite creative with brass tacks taken in trade . Heck, there is even a popular saying (that originated in 1863 Texas) identifying brass tacks as a symbol of having almost nothing of value left to fight over. I agree with Rudyard that the LAST thing the OP should do with this piece is start prying out those brass tacks.

 

[Rudyard]

Firstly any notion of removing the tacks would be pure vandleism . & it might pay to check if that robbed lock isn't still about from the source . Just reflect if this was a NA Indian gun no matter how abused it would be eagerlly sought & priced accordingly .No thought of makeing a lamp standard from it . When I was twenty I hitched & travelled through West Africa from Northern Mali into Ivory Coast Libeira , Siera Leone back through to Ghana,Togoland Dahhomy ' Nigeria' The East & West Cammeroons but due to the perpetual wars in Congo I couldn't get through & ended up on Fernando Po a delightfully tranquil Spanish Colony apart from the heat & humidity & working for a whole 100 Pts a day ere I had enough to take the Troop & supply ship' Ciudad de Oviado' back to Cadiz. and limped (Sometimes literally) up through Spain into France & the port of Bouloine The only inside sleep was a Guardia Civil lock up in Vittoria & crashing in a youth Hostle near Bayonne . The lock up wasn't manned just the place they chucked drunks in to cool off bit like a Western set & sure enough they threw a drunk in who ranted on as such fellows will till I gave him a scungey blanket & told him to pipe down .We got turfed out at a wet dawn but it was a welcome roof to me . I didn't even have a sleeping bag, ditched it long ago on the West Coast .Ten mouths trip . But I examined many relic trade guns and locally made' Dane' guns . Later on I got a Flint lock made by a noted Nigerian maker (Or at least written about in a Guns & Ammo article written by Paul Adamson ) had it years then finding some 5/8th galved water pipe I stocked it up in Shedua a West African wood . I believe the bands are ex jam or butter tins except the two that bore ' one cup' &' two cups' that came from a flour sifter .Nice touch I thought . Rod was the typical No 8 fence wire Africans make toys of such wire , the photo shews it if only the lock is ' Genuine Jimmo Babatunde of Ikorudu lorry park fame' . Yes its ugly but it works fine .I proofed it in a rabbit hole then bowled a bunny and that all its done other than to serve as an example . The dangleing ammulettes are typical and seem to vary in number commensurate to the quality of the barrels they contain magic charms to ward of evil spirits ( allway's troublesome entitis on the Coast ) Togalosis type nuisance's you understand. & related to Australian Bunyips I gather . However I digress .Point being its wrong to disparage such guns just because you don't understand them pass it onto Ricksie do you both a favour .
Regards Rudyard

Pic's later to follow the above. R

 

[Eterry]

Just because it doesn't look like what Dan'l Boone carried over to Kain-tuck doesn't mean it doesn't have value and significance. A very nice piece, lots of unanswered questions loom.

 

[springfield art]

Could never survive that trip now-adays! Very interesting!

 

[springfield art]

It may be a Tactical Rifle , Get it. I know that was pretty bad Hu…

HA! HA! Good one!

 

[oldwood]

Could take buffing wheel with red rouge to it , and carry it ahead of a brass band in a parade. Ta shoot it might take a barrel liner , w/a new breach plug?

 

[bptactical]

Looks kind'a tacky to me.
Robby

Congratulations, you have won the Internetz for the day.

 

[rickystl]

Still no feedback from the OP ?

 

[Eterry]

Still no feedback from the OP ?

The OP joined May 25, 2022, and was last on here the next day. Perhaps the warm welcome he received kept him from coming back. Perhaps he found a site where he wasn't roasted for a legitimate question. I guess we will never know.

 

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Can't really make up my mind about it, but it does kinda look like it has smallpox.

That's Monkey pox!!