Possible bag set up

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When I hear “shot bags” or “shot pouches”, I think of small bags used to carry shot/pellets for smoothbore firearms.

A possibles bag, on the other hand, carries all the “possibles” (everything you might need for shooting or repairs) for a muzzleloader.

This seems to be the generally accepted definition of each.

Everything else that’s essential for survival in the wilderness would go in a haversack or pack.
And this would all be incorrect.
There is no historical reference to anyone in the original muzzleloader period calling the small bag they used for shooting necessities a "possibles bag."

Everything else that’s essential for survival in the wilderness would go in a haversack or pack.

I agree. The term "possibles bag," for the bag all the other stuff goes in is less than adequate as well, but I think there is one, as in singular, late period reference suggesting it.

Just because something is a, "commonly accepted term," doesn't make it right.
 
The large "Possible" bags are a reenactorism arising from the desire to have everything at one's disposal for a day's hunt or one of competitive woods walks where one's supplies are inventoried for completeness. Literature of the mid 1960's through the 1980's referred to the shot pouch as a possibles bag moving the term from the haversack which held daily items for the possible needs for several days. And it sounded a lot cooler to call to have everything possible to use in one pouch. In the 18th century, a hunter didn't carry a canteen, He drank from the stream when thirsty. If he got hungry, well he stayed hungry until he returned to base camp or his cabin for a meal. If he wanted biblical inspiration, he waited until back at camp or other meeting point. If he needed a change of clothing, he waited until he was back at his base of supply to change. A properly set up shot pouch will have all the supplies needed to possibly supply the means for a day's hunt. Extra sandwiches, spare gloves, dry socks were carried in other containers.
 
Historically speaking, what is the etymology of the term "possibles bag"?

A shot pouch typically carried strictly what was needed to load and fire the gun. Not other stuff. In particular, 18th c. shot pouches tended to be small, relatively simple, often divided into two sections.

So, are possible bags a reenactorism, or is there a sound historical basis for them?

Cheers,

Tom A.
There is no historical reference in any period account where the tern "possibles bag" is used in reference to what is called over and over again, a shot pouch.
"Possibles Bag," is a complete fallacy,,, and I'm not even sure I blame early reenactors,,,, at least not serious ones. There are a lot of terms and myths propagated by people like, "my pappy," "Uncle Touchtoomuch," and the universal, "that old timer at the range," that started with words such as, "this is what the, minutemen/longhunters/Rogers Rangers, (insert period iconic gun carrier of choice), called it (or how they did this/it, or wore), Li'l Bobby."

A lot of this b.s. started innocently enough,,,, but it stuck, and there is an amazing amount of pushback against unstucking it.
 
Here's a 2 pocket bag I made for my son's. 45
 

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However, I would encourage you to conduct a search for the terms ‘shot bag’ or ‘shot pouch’ using your preferred search engine and observe the results. It is likely you may encounter difficulty finding precisely what you are looking for (as I did).
I am sure you are correct about the use of the search feature regarding shot pouch.
But, just because the wrong terminology is so prevalent, and even though "shot pouch" should come up in the search because this same thing comes up in most "possibles bag" threads, but doesn't seem to,,, does that make the wrong thing right?
Does that mean we should further promote the falsehood and stop trying to correct it?
 
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Historically speaking, what is the etymology of the term "possibles bag"?

A shot pouch typically carried strictly what was needed to load and fire the gun. Not other stuff. In particular, 18th c. shot pouches tended to be small, relatively simple, often divided into two sections.

So, are possible bags a reenactorism, or is there a sound historical basis for them?

Cheers,

Tom A.

The earliest recorded use of the term “possible bag” is debated but is generally believed to date to the early 19th century. Written references appear in the journals of fur trappers and mountain men during the 1820s and 1830s. For example, the famous mountain man Osborne Russell, in his Journal of a Trapper (1834–1843), makes references to carrying essential items in a bag, though not specifically using the term.

The term may have also been popularized later in the 19th century through accounts of the fur trade era and by authors romanticizing the lives of mountain men. However, direct evidence of the exact origin or first written use remains sparse.
 
I am sure you are correct about the use of the search feature regarding shot pouch.
But, just because the wrong terminology is so prevalent, and even though "shot pouch" should come up in the search because this same thing comes up in most "possibles bag" threads, but doesn't seem to,,, does that make the wrong thing right?
Does that mean we should further promote the falsehood and stop trying to correct it?
I understand your concern about the prevalent use of certain terminologies and the importance of historical accuracy. It’s true that terms like “shot pouch” and “hunting pouch” were commonly used historically to describe bags that carried shooting supplies; however, language evolves over time, and the meanings and common usages of terms can shift. We can’t simply choose to ignore this very real fact. While it’s important to acknowledge and understand historical terminology, it’s also essential to recognize that contemporary usage may differ. In modern contexts, “possibles bag” has become a widely accepted term— one that has been adopted by the vast majority of the muzzleloading community, in my experience.

Promoting historical accuracy is valuable, but it’s also important to consider the evolution of language and how terms are understood by contemporary audiences. Educating others about the historical origins of these terms can provide valuable context, but insisting on the exclusive use of historical terminology may not always be practical or effective, especially when the modern term is widely recognized and understood.

In summary, while “shot pouch” and “hunting pouch” may be more historically accurate, the term “possibles bag” has evolved to have its own meaning and recognition in modern times. Acknowledging both the historical and contemporary usages allows for a more comprehensive understanding and appreciation of the subject.

In any case, we’ve kind of hijacked the thread here. Perhaps we ought to take this discussion elsewhere.
 
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That’s a fair point. However, I would encourage you to conduct a search for the terms ‘shot bag’ or ‘shot pouch’ using your preferred search engine and observe the results. It is likely you may encounter difficulty finding precisely what you are looking for (as I did).

Please understand, my intent is not to be argumentative, but rather to emphasize the importance of precise (or generally accepted) terminology to prevent potential confusion.

It begs the question… if the term “shot bag” or “shot pouch” refers to a receptacle for shooting-related accessories, what term should be used to describe a bag or pouch specifically designed to hold shot for a smoothbore firearm?

If Lewis and Clark called it a " shot bag ", that is good enough for me.
 
I understand your concern about the prevalent use of certain terminologies and the importance of historical accuracy. It’s true that terms like “shot pouch” and “hunting pouch” were commonly used historically to describe bags that carried shooting supplies; however, language evolves over time, and the meanings and common usages of terms can shift. We can’t simply choose to ignore this very real fact. While it’s important to acknowledge and understand historical terminology, it’s also essential to recognize that contemporary usage may differ. In modern contexts, “possibles bag” has become a widely accepted term— one that has been adopted by the vast majority of the muzzleloading community, in my experience.

Promoting historical accuracy is valuable, but it’s also important to consider the evolution of language and how terms are understood by contemporary audiences. Educating others about the historical origins of these terms can provide valuable context, but insisting on the exclusive use of historical terminology may not always be practical or effective, especially when the modern term is widely recognized and understood.

In summary, while “shot pouch” and “hunting pouch” may be more historically accurate, the term “possibles bag” has evolved to have its own meaning and recognition in modern times. Acknowledging both the historical and contemporary usages allows for a more comprehensive understanding and appreciation of the subject.

In any case, we’ve kind of hijacked the thread here. Perhaps we ought to take this discussion elsewhere.
The evolution of language has nothing to do with lying to new BP shooters about what things were called, what methods and tools were used, and what clothing was worn and how during the period.
If people who have been doing this long enough, reenecting/living history/or just shooting traditional muzzleloaders, long enough to be helping and advising others would stop spreading myths, legends, and incorrect terminology, we wouldn't be having these discussions.
It has nothing to do with "evolution" of language. It has a lot to do with people repeating something that is wrong often enough for some people to defend it as right......
 
The following is from Osbourne Russell's journal. In reading his entire journal i recall one other time he used the "bullet pouch" term later in his career while in the Yellowstone area.

"I now prepared myself for the first time in my life to kill meat for my supper with a Rifle. I had an elegant one but had little experience in using it, I however approached the band of Buffaloe crawling on my hands and knees within about 80 yards of them then raised my body erect took aim and shot at a Bull: at the crack of the gun the Buffaloe all ran off excepting the Bull which I had wounded, I then reloaded and shot as fast as I could untill I had driven 25 bullets at, in and about him which was all that I had in my bullet pouch whilst the Bull still stood apparently riveted to the spot I watched him anxiously for half an hour in hopes of seeing him fall, but to no purpose, I was obliged to give it up as a bad job and retreat to our encampment without meat: but the Mullattoe had better luck he had killed a fat cow whilst shooting 15 bullets at the band."
 
I really like bags that have straps for attaching the powder horn to the bag shoulder strap. Keeps everything together and eliminates a separate powder horn shoulder strap.
 
The evolution of language has nothing to do with lying to new BP shooters about what things were called, what methods and tools were used, and what clothing was worn and how during the period.
If people who have been doing this long enough, reenecting/living history/or just shooting traditional muzzleloaders, long enough to be helping and advising others would stop spreading myths, legends, and incorrect terminology, we wouldn't be having these discussions.
It has nothing to do with "evolution" of language. It has a lot to do with people repeating something that is wrong often enough for some people to defend it as right......

As Vladimir Lenin used to say, " Tell a lie enough and it becomes the truth". Many of the things we think we know about in muzzleloading have become truth in this way. For us I would change the word lie to just guessing and watching to many movies.
 
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