Possible C.S.A. gun. Need help identifying

[cobracoach]

I bought this rifle at a civil war show after finding these markings.I paid very little for the gun for I wanted a shootable smoothbore but now I don`t know if the gun might be a little more than just a shooter.
C.S.A. is on the top of the tang, 1858 is on the bottom of the tang.
Can anyone help authenticate it and put some sort of value on it? I`ve googled all kinds of terms and can`t find 1 pic of a gun like this.
I will add in closing that 2 friends within 150 miles of me have VERY similar guns but the castings are ever so slightly different and there are no markings of any kind on their guns.
thanks for any help!
http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/cobracoach/media/rifle/20150504_172138_zpssrbjax0r.jpg.html http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/cobracoach/media/rifle/20150504_172220_zpsoc3z7mrb.jpg.html http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/cobracoach/media/rifle/20150504_172155_zpsdxo6tymn.jpg.html http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/cobracoach/media/rifle/20150504_172145_zpsgblkntvz.jpg.html http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/cobracoach/media/rifle/20150504_172241_zpsayblbn55.jpg.html http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/cobracoach/media/rifle/20150504_172258_zpselyj5x7d.jpg.html

 

[bpd303]

The receiver looks like a Frank Wesson rifle, although I don't know if any muzzle loaders were made. Nice find in any case.

 

[Zonie]

I don't know about the others but I can't open the picture links that are given in cobracoach's post.

As the pictures are at photobucket, I strongly suggest that cobracoach click on the little thumbnail pictures at his photobucket site.

Move the mouse cursor to the lower left hand area in the picture and select "SHARE LINKS".

Go to the lower area where it says "IMG" and click on it.
Come back here and PASTE it into a new post in this topic.

Go back to the Photobucket area (in another tab or window) and repeat this with the other pictures.

Once the addresses that poking the IMG button are pasted into the post here, the pictures will magically appear so we all can see them.

 

[cobracoach]

Sorry, when I clicked on the links they worked, lets try this again....
the gun on top....

 

[mhb]

It is almost certainly a shotgun - Remington (and probably others) made an inexpensive single shot on this design.
And the 'CSA' markings are very likely spurious.

mhb - Mike

 

[satx78247]

Every "fully documented" Confederate musket/rifle/smoothbore/handgun that I've ever seen (& that was actually "martially marked") were marked with "CS", "CN" or (more commonly) with an "identifier" of one of the 11 States.

The vast majority of Confederate firearms were NEVER marked, according the chief curator of the Confederate Museum in New Orleans, LA. = In APR 1988, he told a group from the local Civil War Roundtable that probably 90+% of such "marked" firearms are FRAUDS.

yours, satx

 

[cobracoach]

Gee, thanks guys. Ecxactly the info I was looking for. The link to the shotgun looks almost identical to my gun save for the missing trigger guard, and the info on the fraudulent guns was already suspected but not known as point of fact. Thank you gentleman for your information, very helpful!!!

 

[satx78247]

Not only are you welcome but also WELCOME ABOARD the BEST ML forum on the worldwidewierd.

best wishes, satx

 

[bpd303]

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4413

My post disappeared due to internet problems. Here is the Remington that is very close to this one.

 

[Zonie]

On page 177 in "FLAYDERMAN'S GUIDE TO ANTUQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS...and their values" , 9th ed. this single barrel percussion shotgun is discussed.

It was made by Remington from 1866 thru the 1870's which totally rules out the possibility of it being a Confederate gun.

According to the author it was "Illustrated and described in their 1873, 1877 and 1878 catalogs. Quantity unknown, but their 1873 catalog mentioned " ...having made and sold 10,000 within the past few years we feel warranted in resuming their manufacture.""

It is listed as a 20 guage with a 35" barrel.
It is completely unmarked except for possible "P" proof and inspector initials on underside of barrel.
It has walnut stock with a short forend with an iron tip, iron trigger guard and butt plate.

In 2007, Flayderman's shows its value as,
Good = $225
Fine = $550

Faking Confederate markings on guns has been practiced by crooks for over 100 years so the phony markings don't surprise me.

 

[cobracoach]

Gentlemen,
Thank you for the all the great info!, it leaves no doubt someone doctored the gun and I can`t retire early! :cursing: LOL. But now I can make sure it is still shootable which it appears to be, and possibly shoot it in our clubs smoothbore match which is what it was intended for.
Thanks again to all.

 

[Jim C]

The numbers and letters are too clear and sharp They do appear to have been stamped into the metal long after the surface pitting had taken place........... On another note. Those are some really fine looking target rifles I must say.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Maybe a Charles Simpson Adams owned the gun at one time and wanted be sure it didn't get mixed up with someone else's gun. :grin:

 

[Jim C]

:haha: Hey, anythings possible!

 

[Coot]

I once saw a cutlass defaced with a poorly stamped "N. Starr" (who was a famous maker) - unfortunately, the cutlass that they chose to "enhance" was a much rarer Maywig & Nipples. :shake:

 

[Jim C]

Yep, this old world is full of dumb crooks.