Possible new option for a cap making tool!

[Dave Markowitz]

I just ordered one from Pat and a roll of aluminum from Amazon. This is a great addition to our sport!

 

[Patmarlin]

I just orded a new roll of this off Amazon and will double check to make sure it's the same .014" AL Amerimax has always offered. We have been making great checks with this metal for years now:

https://www.amazon.com/Amerimax-Aluminum-Valley-Flashing-0-0140/dp/B0009SQFTS

Is this the same material used in roof water gutters? If so, here the measurement I find is 0.016. Can it be used?


No, you have to be very careful with selecting metals. The hardness can run all over the spectrum and damage the dies. Here's some basic info...

Info on metals:

Please be careful selecting metals. Metal tempered to hard can damage your dies. Not all metal is suitable for making gas checks.

PB stands for (plain base) or flat base, as in plain base molds with no gas check shank allowing you to use thin metals such as soda cans (.004” - .010” depending on metals and mold) and they perform like gangbusters with no leading and great accuracy. PB checks swage into the base of any non gas check shank mold with your lube sizer.

My other dies are for gas check shank molds and are optimized for .014” thick metals, and work with a wide range of molds just like any standard gas check. Accuracy results have met and exceeded factory gas checks over the years.

Amerimax aluminum has historically been good but sometimes they will release a hard tempered batch:

Amerimax part #68104 .014” (at) Amazon, Ebay, Walmart, Ace Hardware etc.

Info on operation and metals can be found here:
http://www.patmarlins.com/frequent-questions/

http://www.patmarlins.com/the-learning-pages/

Warmest regards,

Pat

Patmarlins™ -Specialty Products for Casting and Reloading
https://www.patmarlins.com

 

[Patmarlin]

Is this the same material used in roof water gutters? If so, here the measurement I find is 0.016. Can it be used?

No. See my prior posting. While .016" may possibly work, it is at the very upper limit of thickness for my dies and can very well damage them, so it's important to be very careful and try before you buy. The good news is my dies are fully rebuildable so if they were to get damaged, I can repair them.

 

[Patmarlin]

Update on Capmaker dies...

I've been working with the Amerimax.014" metal I recently purchased from Amazon that I mentioned here in this thread and while it works great for making gas checks I'm not happy with the results for the caps as yet. It's not working consistently, but I'm still making adjustments on die dimensions.

Being that the cap is so small (slight) dimension changes are more critcal than larger (gaschecks) when it comes to forming... disk diameter, female forming die ID and depth and male forming die dimensions with this thicker aluminum.

I'll get it figured out, but in mean time I'm not 100% sure the .014" Amerimax will work like I want for caps. It will work great for gas checks, roof flashing., etc.. lol.

We'll keep sending updates on my progress, and find the appropriate metal.

Thanks much,

Pat

 

[n.h.schmidt]

Pat My own experience with hell for stout material for percussion caps didn't work so well. .008 will work better and be easier to adjust the dies to. What happens with a too stout cup is, the cup can not expand and becomes a piston . A normal rifle target load would set the hammer back and the cap blows off the nipple. This cup needs to split or expand upon firing to release some pressure. I use double layer pop cans or .005 soft brass. for my caps now.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Update on Capmaker dies...

I've been working with the Amerimax.014" metal I recently purchased from Amazon that I mentioned here in this thread and while it works great for making gas checks I'm not happy with the results for the caps as yet. It's not working consistently, but I'm still making adjustments on die dimensions.

Being that the cap is so small (slight) dimension changes are more critcal than larger (gaschecks) when it comes to forming... disk diameter, female forming die ID and depth and male forming die dimensions with this thicker aluminum.

I'll get it figured out, but in mean time I'm not 100% sure the .014" Amerimax will work like I want for caps. It will work great for gas checks, roof flashing., etc.. lol.

We'll keep sending updates on my progress, and find the appropriate metal.

Thanks much,

Pat

Great Follow-up THX Pat.

 

[Patmarlin]

So, I got the .014" to form some decent caps this morning with a few more adjustments. They're always going to have a scalloped edge due to forming a cup so small that will still be tall enough, but that won't effect performance. They fit snug. I still need to do some fine tuning but waiting on a new boring bar for the Female die to get here. As far as the performance goes, I will be shipping a die set to Sam and we'll see what he comes up with. If I need to go to thinner metals I will.

 

[Patmarlin]

Pat My own experience with hell for stout material for percussion caps didn't work so well. .008 will work better and be easier to adjust the dies to. What happens with a too stout cup is, the cup can not expand and becomes a piston . A normal rifle target load would set the hammer back and the cap blows off the nipple. This cup needs to split or expand upon firing to release some pressure. I use double layer pop cans or .005 soft brass. for my caps now.

This AL is pretty soft. I'm still experimenting with other metals.

 

[Sandro_Ventania]

Have you tested it with a beer can?

 

[Crow Choker]

Patmarlin: Your cap making die/tool looks interesting, as long as percussion caps are scarce at times and overpriced, could very well be a shooting life saver for percussion shooters. Have a couple of questions. Have read posts by others and you that your tool makes an equivalent of a number 11 cap. Is this in both internal and length of skirt dimensions and based on a #11 Remington or CCI cap? Looking at the picture you had on one of your posts of a formed cap on a nipple, the cap appears to not cover the exterior of the nipple from top down as much as the CCI #11's I use. Could just be due to the angle of picture. Best I know would be to check a #11 CCI with your side by side and with a caliper. I've never had good luck with Rem #11's as they have a larger internal dimension than CCI's and don't fit tight on nipples. I will say though that RWS 1075's are similar to CCI 11's and work well if found. One individual posted sometime back that all caps are the same, just sized 10 or 11. IMO just was showing his ignorance (in his own words he advised he was new to shooting percussion/black powder firearms).

My favorite and most used cap is a Reminton #10. I've found those caps after 52 years of shooting percussion revolvers to fit the best of any other cap either on factory or after market nipples. Rem 10 and CCI 11's have pretty much the same internal dimension for a tight fit, but the Rem 10's have a longer skirt that fits over the nipple and extends further down closer to the base. This aids in nipple retention to keep nipples on tight from getting dislodged when firing other chambers and the Rems seem to adhere to the nipple better after being fired helping to prevent caps or their fragments to fall into the revolver action. Rarely-Rarely have that happen voiding the issue of unnecessary cap blockers to the revolver. Fitting the proper cap to nipples helps prevent cap jams.

What are the dimensions of your current #11 caps your tool produces? Both internal and length of skirt? Also have you or could you produce a tool that reproduces a Remington #10? CCI 10's are way too tight to fit on any factory or aftermarket nipple I've used. I'm referring to Uberti or Pietta factory nipples (pretty much the whole list of revolvers from a Walker to 1851 plus models, Colt or Remington (except the smaller 31 caliber models, don't have) and Rugers Old Army. CCI 10's also too tight on any Slix, Treso's, and Wolf nipples I've tried, won't seat without having to force (alot of) with a wooden dowel-made me nervous doing so. If you've ever seen Mako's often shown percussion cap dimension chart (and it is pretty much right on), that is the measurements I'm referring to.

Appreciate any feed back on dimensions of your current tool and any thought of producing a Rem #10 dimension tool. Currently not needing caps, but who knows what the future holds. Best of luck with your products. Your offering looks the best of any offering I've seen here on the forum and on other sites. Crow Choker

 

[smoothshooter]

Hi All,
Like many others here I’m an avid reloader. I have purchased quite a few products from Pat Marlin and am very happy with them all. One of the products he makes is a very high quality press mounted die to make gas checks. I have thought for quite a while now the similarity in the making of percussion caps and gas checks. So today I sent Pat an email asking if he would entertain making a die to make caps. To my surprise he replied within 20 minutes. His response was that he made a prototype quite a while ago, at the time caps weren’t a supply issue. Pat asked that I throw this out here to get a consensus of potential interest. If there is enough interest he would entertain putting them into production. He sent me this picture of the cups his die cut and formed when he initially made the prototype. They are made of 3 metals, .010 copper, .014 aluminum and .004 soda can material. His prototype die is for #11. So I’m throwing this info out there because I know I’d like to have one. I dont work for Pat Marlin, there is nothing in it for me but the prospect of buying a superior cap making tool. You can see his Checkmaker Dies at his website. He has many pictures of his Checkmaker dies and how they are used. I will email him with the level of interest in this die. I encourage you to check out his website and take a look at these dies and respond to this thread if would be interested in this!
Thanks!

Where do you get the priming compound?

 

[Gtrubicon]

The website is sharpshooter 22 reloader.

 

[Patmarlin]

Patmarlin: Your cap making die/tool looks interesting, as long as percussion caps are scarce at times and overpriced, could very well be a shooting life saver for percussion shooters. Have a couple of questions. Have read posts by others and you that your tool makes an equivalent of a number 11 cap. Is this in both internal and length of skirt dimensions and based on a #11 Remington or CCI cap? Looking at the picture you had on one of your posts of a formed cap on a nipple, the cap appears to not cover the exterior of the nipple from top down as much as the CCI #11's I use. Could just be due to the angle of picture. Best I know would be to check a #11 CCI with your side by side and with a caliper. I've never had good luck with Rem #11's as they have a larger internal dimension than CCI's and don't fit tight on nipples. I will say though that RWS 1075's are similar to CCI 11's and work well if found. One individual posted sometime back that all caps are the same, just sized 10 or 11. IMO just was showing his ignorance (in his own words he advised he was new to shooting percussion/black powder firearms).

My favorite and most used cap is a Reminton #10. I've found those caps after 52 years of shooting percussion revolvers to fit the best of any other cap either on factory or after market nipples. Rem 10 and CCI 11's have pretty much the same internal dimension for a tight fit, but the Rem 10's have a longer skirt that fits over the nipple and extends further down closer to the base. This aids in nipple retention to keep nipples on tight from getting dislodged when firing other chambers and the Rems seem to adhere to the nipple better after being fired helping to prevent caps or their fragments to fall into the revolver action. Rarely-Rarely have that happen voiding the issue of unnecessary cap blockers to the revolver. Fitting the proper cap to nipples helps prevent cap jams.

What are the dimensions of your current #11 caps your tool produces? Both internal and length of skirt? Also have you or could you produce a tool that reproduces a Remington #10? CCI 10's are way too tight to fit on any factory or aftermarket nipple I've used. I'm referring to Uberti or Pietta factory nipples (pretty much the whole list of revolvers from a Walker to 1851 plus models, Colt or Remington (except the smaller 31 caliber models, don't have) and Rugers Old Army. CCI 10's also too tight on any Slix, Treso's, and Wolf nipples I've tried, won't seat without having to force (alot of) with a wooden dowel-made me nervous doing so. If you've ever seen Mako's often shown percussion cap dimension chart (and it is pretty much right on), that is the measurements I'm referring to.

Appreciate any feed back on dimensions of your current tool and any thought of producing a Rem #10 dimension tool. Currently not needing caps, but who knows what the future holds. Best of luck with your products. Your offering looks the best of any offering I've seen here on the forum and on other sites. Crow Choker

Hello Mr Crow,

Right now I'm in the R&D stage. I have protoyped the dies that are making a cap which is step one in the process. The next step is making adjustments. These small caps are tedious. Slight OD or ID changes make a lot of difference as well as other adjustments like female forming die depth, male forming die diameter and lenght.

One benefit of my Checkmaker die design is it has always had a wide range to accomodate all the specs you mention simply by changing metals. So, my goal here is to finish a set that works with a variety such as beverage cans up to .014" soft aluminum.

I have ordered different metals. I sent some samples to Sam (GTrubicon) to try yesterday and he's close to me so we can get results sooner.

I would have had those I sent to him a bit deeper but I crashed (2) of the last tiny cobalt boring bars (rookie errors) I had here in the shop with these and waiting on replacements.

So, I'll keep working on them. It's gonna take some time to get it right. It's all part of the process.

Pat

 

[French Colonial]

The website is sharpshooter 22 reloader.

Here is a simple mixture with components available on the net, easier that the 22-reloader stuff.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/how-i-make-my-caps.177599/

 

[Patmarlin]

Update on Capmaker Dies...

We have found .014" is too thick for caps. Makes incredibly accurate gas checks (with sub moa accuracy) but to thick for the caps as mentioned above that they may be. I'm working with .007" ).2mm aluminum and I have some .2mm copper coming. Also will be working with beaverage cans. Cans normally run about .004" thick.

The dies work but I'm not 100% happy with them yet and I'm working on different female forming geometry as well as other adjustments in dimensions. I'm not going to send any out until I think they're the best that they can be.

Pat

 

[bpalbee]

Update on Capmaker Dies...

We have found .014" is too thick for caps. Makes incredibly accurate gas checks (with sub moa accuracy) but to thick for the caps as mentioned above that they may be. I'm working with .007" ).2mm aluminum and I have some .2mm copper coming. Also will be working with beaverage cans. Cans normally run about .004" thick.

The dies work but I'm not 100% happy with them yet and I'm working on different female forming geometry as well as other adjustments in dimensions. I'm not going to send any out until I think they're the best that they can be.

Pat

Mr. Marlin,
I just ordered a set of percussion cap dies from your web site a couple days ago. I think my local home depot has the .007 aluminum in big rolls cheap, I was looking for .014 for my 30-30 gas checks and I see you found they had it at ace, thanks. If the cap dies aren't dialed in, feel free to take your time and ship em when you feel they're ready. Regards, Brian

 

[Patmarlin]

Mr. Marlin,
I just ordered a set of percussion cap dies from your web site a couple days ago. I think my local home depot has the .007 aluminum in big rolls cheap, I was looking for .014 for my 30-30 gas checks and I see you found they had it at ace, thanks. If the cap dies aren't dialed in, feel free to take your time and ship em when you feel they're ready. Regards, Brian

HI Brian,

Thanks for your order. I would make sure the .014" is Amerimax. I posted a link earlier in this thread on Amazon. With any metals you have to be careful that it's suitable for forming caps or gas checks. Not all metal is. One example is .009" flashing can be temered hard as a rock and damage dies.

It's going to take more time getting the cap dies dialed in but I'm on a mission. Waiting on a new tooling order for the fem die as well. Lots of R&D going into these little buggars. We will get her done...

Pat

 

[Patmarlin]

Sent some caps to Sam Gtrubicon, yesterday to try with the .007". These are from the same prototype die set with no changes as yet. Sam has graciously been helping me with R&D testing and he's close in California so that helps as well. Curios as to how the .007 AL performs.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Nice results on latest test. Because I am not a tool and Die Engineer,how hard would it be to incorporate or replicate the corrugated ridges similar to factory caps?

 

[Patmarlin]

Nice results on latest test. Because I am not a tool and Die Engineer,how hard would it be to incorporate or replicate the corrugated ridges similar to factory caps?

Hi Curtis,

There's a limit to what dies like these can do for numerous reasons and that cannot be done. The only way to replicate factory caps is with manufacturing industry hydraulic blank forming machinery. The purpose of these dies are to enable us shooters an affordable way to make caps that will work.