post hawkin here

Fed, where did Don Stith get this information? The Modena Rifle has been dated as being built since Baird published it in his book. The hawken Rifle The Mountain Man's Choice in 1968.

My other question is this. If this guy is coming up with so much new information, why is he being so hesitant in having it published?

 

We really have no idea what Modena told Gen. Jones that The Gen. may have misinterpreted or possibly Modena was yarning him. It wouldn't be the first time an old mountainman told a yarn. We also know that the Modena rifle was Mariano's favorite Hawken of many that he owned. Possibly one of the other Hawken guns he had was bought in St. Louis in 1833. Who knows at this late date? Anyway, the rifles of known provenance with flat to wrist guards on them are either Hoffman & Campbell made rifles for the Hawken Shop OR later J&S Hawken or Sam Hawken rifles. Hoffman and Campbell didn't make rifles for the Hawkens until 1842. Baird had all of the evidence in his book but misinterpreted it for reasons unknown. Personal agenda maybe? I don't know. As far as why Don Stith won't write a book? You'll have to ask him. If he ever does I'll buy the first copy off the press.
Don :thumbsup:

 

[rabbit03]

I appreciate the advice and may do just that. I think the wood just didnt have alot of character in it.

rabbit03

 

[rabbit03]

Hi FW yeah the wood looks pretty nice with the curl but for some reason the stain didn't come out as brown and actually as you can see was quite red. I think I may leave it and just let it darken on its own but not sure yet. I think what happened was that my stain was too thin.

Wow 3 1/2 feet at 50yds sounds like it would shoot a ways. I really wanted to do something with the ol gun instead of just leaving it on the mantle. I had always wanted a long range shooter and this seamed like the ideal way to get one. Like I said I spent no money since I had all the parts on hand except of course for the sight I want. I may just opt to go with one of the ladder sights they offer in Track the ones that flip up. I am just wanting to use it for a bit of hunting and fun.

I am building a Jim Bridger right now (got it in today) and that one I am going to take lots of time and try and make it real nice. It will be all iron mounted, even the nose cap. I am thinking about browning it and have a post (builders area)to ask about how well the browning will cover some small scratches. It is in .58 and will be using it for bear this fall if the creek don't rise! Thanks

rabbit03

 

[rabbit03]

Yeah I had a scope on my old Thompson too once :rotf:

I will keep you up to date on the new one from Track, as I said I am really anxiuos to get it all put together but am taking my time to try and do it all right. The builder of the other one I redid I would rather not say actually LOL no big deal really just a sore spot. I will tell you though as it turned out I have a wall full of trophies from that rifle and am glad to see it back to doing something again.

rabbit03

 

And I'll be right behind you for that second book Don! I really do wish that someone would publish a new updated book on the subject.

 

[reddogge]

You could print out this thread and make it into a book. :rotf:

 

[faw3]

dmills , very true, but if you had the stuff just laying around already.... Fred :thumbsup:

 

[faw3]

rabbit03, Hey I started out with a Cabelas 40 buck sight on my 451 Voulnter. It didnt take long to figure out the more you spent the better you got. It is fun poping away at 1000 yds, Ive had thar far to shootat off my back porch till a week ago (now 2 oil rigs are going up and the deer and hogs are long gone). When I first got tom talking to 5the guys at TOTW they told me about how AUQ FOR worked on curley mapel(same as on the stock on rifle I'm waiting on) sems those colors are what it does,longer it's on ect reddoge tld you what they told me to do. Keep us in pics on your newst. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

Flyboy and Cooner54 , I took another fall trying to learn to walk again and landed in ER but was really happy to find 3 books waiting on me when I got out. I'm starting on the latest " it's place in history" first. So far it seems by 1979 Hanson had lost any love for the Hawken rifle (so far)it's a lot of pages of bills shipping this and that, who was in town when, he has access to all kinds of stuff "B" never did. As far as writeing another book he goes into what a pain it was to track down all that he did.(lots) Ive got a great answer for when was this or that Hawken made " Who "dirty word cares" it dont matter to me and why should it, just seems to stir people up. "B" was the first and did really good with what he had to work with I think( once upon a time I did a little "pre Colu art" buying and selling now that was a real mess about what was made when. Don like Cooner gives a good reason for the date on the "M" rifle, I dont know which is right but I wont looose any sleep over it. A newer book would be nice ...but youd spend a heck of a lot of time just going over the samr stuff, wait 10 yrs and more records will be found and maybe then. For now how about more pics of more Hawks, mine will be at least a week before its shipped. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[rabbit03]

Hi FW what kind of stock you waiting on? Hope you get it soon. I am lacking just one part now for the new Hawken 58 and that is the entry pipe but I have lots to do in the meantime for sure.

Yeah funny you should mention the volunteer, my X father in law had one and I was trying to talk him out of it he liked it alot. I think your right about spending the money and getting a more quality site and really doing justice to the gun and the shooter too. Your only as good as your equipment.

I was shooting deer this year off my kitchen windo sill! And the funny thing was I always had fresh coffee and never got too cold!

Thanks

rabbit03

ps will keep you up to snuff on the new photos of the Hawken 58

 

[faw3]

Im waiting on a "new" 1985 TOTW Curley Maple Hawken, thats why Im asking about stock ,this is still new and the ad and TOTW said use AQ FOR ect.Shape the stock how I want and stain and brown the parts and it's ready to fire (53 cal) Ya those Vols are fun my kids built a bench I could shoot off the back porch , put barrels out at 100, 500, and 1000 for me to shoot at with it.(this wss while I was still in wheel chair) got to bag hogs every once in while with it and a 54 up close(we did have a heck of a hog problem) if you still want one I dont need mine PT me its inletted for the sight ,driled for the longbrass scope ect. If you really want to get floored you need to pickup this last Hawken book from Dixie $12. Its going to change everything about them you ever thought. Hanson really dug deep, used records that are hard to beat. Fred :hatsoff:

 

Sorry to hear about your mishap Fred. I sincere'ly hope you're feeling better. I think you'll like that book by Chuck Hansen. It's rather quick reading but very factual. It's certainly a must have book for any Hawken enthusiast.

If you'd like some more pics of Hawkens I'll take some pictures of a few of mine and send them to you if you'd like and you could post them. I don't have that capability. I have'nt got a scanner.

 

Sorry to hear about your mishap Fred. I sincere'ly hope you're feeling better. I think you'll like that book by Chuck Hansen. It's rather quick reading but very factual. It's certainly a must have book for any Hawken enthusiast.

If you'd like some more pics of Hawkens I'll take some pictures of a few of mine and send them to you if you'd like and you could post them. I don't have that capability. I have'nt got a scanner.

:thumbsup: Make it happen Fred. We need some more pictures of some Hawkens on here. :bow:
Don

 

Idaho PRB, I would say you got the best end of that deal. I don't care for brass on a Hawken gun but that wood is gorgeous. Have ya shot it yet???
How's it shoot???
Don :thumbsup:

 

Don, I'll absoloutely agree with you on that one! The only Hawken Rifles produced with brass furniture were the rifles made for local trade or the Turkey Rifles. The Mountain Rifles that we are all familiar with were were iron mounted.

 

Fred, here's an interesting quoute from Chuck Hansen. "It does not appear that more than a fourth of the "Mountain Men" ever carried Haswkens in the 1820-1840 period. They were expensive by frontiier standards from $20.00 to $28.00 in 1831. The early best half stocks cost $38.00 in the late 1830's and early 1840's, nearly four times the price of a good Pennsylvania trade rifle.

There is little doudt that the Hawken was the most famous percussion rifle on the frontier but it's fame was due to it's use by Scouts, emigrant leaders, explorers, and gold miners, NOT by Mountain Men".

Rather interesting!

 

[faw3]

And" penny books " Id bet. Ya this book really is a turn around from what MR "B" wrote, but he had a love for the rifle and was the first to break ground on what,when why ect, for others to[url] follow.Sende[/url] me your pics I do not know how to get them up , I cant get my own up most times but "we" got friends that will. I'll PT you,anyone else just let me know. I am haveing a hard time beliveing how many Hawken rifles got made if Hanson is right- TOTW sells more "kits" in a half year than all the Hawks ever built? Just hard to belive.(DONT WANT TO :yakyak: :yakyak: this) "B" is my kind of guy he trys to think thru things like hes in place at that time and place, but "H' has tax records , well hes run it all(about) down that can for now. I did read about the Hawk that shot "pointed bullets half again as far as " so a long range Hawken seems to fit right in here,wish we had more about that one.One thing of much intrest is the line about the 1st rate Hs all 18 built from1837-42 costing 38.00, and the knocking off of the factory sights no matter what was on them?? What is a 16 bore Manton rifle? Tristam Campbell, pops up and "promptly disappears" < "alcholol or restless nature"/ Oh I like that. I got to long sorry everyone I'll post and do a "little more later You all got something to add for sure. Im going to go back and hunt up old Hawk sites we had like the Johnthan Browning Mountain Rifle site and add them in case anyone missed these ,please add what youd like. and thank you everyone. FRED :hatsoff:

 

You brought up a rather interesting point in regards to Tristam Campbell Fred. He started doing work for the Hawken shop along with his partner Christian Hoffman in 1842 and kind of disappeared around 1858. I'll have to do some research into that and see what I can come up with. Maybe Don could give some input on this.

 

[faw3]

Ya the CH thing is maybe Cooner can clue us in a little more on that? So as Ive read this one twice. 2000 Hawken (Hawkins) is all that ever got built? That do make them rare , I hate to think how many fakes got made the last ? 45 yrs or so, useing the 1960s as the start of the last take off of "got to have one" time. It dont matter to me a lot (Im waiting on the Easter bunny). Someone else throw in your 2 cents Thanks everyone and put up those pics! Fred :hatsoff: