Potential mid 19th cent. Richards

[Texican65]

Greetings,

My name is Dow and I recently joined to find out a little bit more about this shotgun.

I bought it out of the blue at a show, as I wasn't looking for one, but have always wanted a muzzleloading shotgun...and couldn't pass on it. When purchasing, I knew nothing about it, only that it has Damascus steel barrels and said "Richards" on the side. It has minimal engraving around the hammers and trigger guard, and other areas. A small brass shield on the bottom of the shoulder stock as well.

The only markings on it are "Richards" on the hammer side plates...not sure if that's the proper term, and some numbers and stamps on the bottom side of the barrel.

After a little reading on-line, I understand that there was a prominent British maker Westley Richards, and also several Belgian "knock-off" makers too. Just wondering if somebody can help pinpoint which I have here.

I'd like to use this gun if I can...so I will take it to a qualified muzzleloading gunsmith for an inspection.

What say you gents?

Thanks very much,

Dow

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
The barrel proof marks are Birmingham during the mid 19th century. I do not believe your gun was made by Westley Richards. It is too plain and not of the quality routinely made by that firm. It is more of a the hardware store quality made by the thousands and sold by many retailers. That said, it is likely a good gun and could still possibly be a good shooter.

dave

 

[Texican65]

Thanks very much Dave, I kind of figured as much. Most of the Richards I have recently viewed were very ornate, and this one is rather plain compared.

Also, mine appears to be a laminated twist steel barrel construction, which to my understanding was an easier and less expensive way to make them.

Could you by chance recommend a gunsmith who is knowledgeable enough with Damascus who could inspect this old gun for me?

Thanks very much,

Dow

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

Good looking piece! The edges have survived nicely. I'm willing to bet it will serve you well.

How do the barrels ring?

 

[Texican65]

Good looking piece! The edges have survived nicely. I'm willing to bet it will serve you well.

How do the barrels ring?

Thank you Dusty.

I performed the ring test to-day and both barrels ring “like a bell.”

Unfortunately…I did a bit closer looking deep inside the bores, and upon my untrained visual inspection…it appears that there is a substantial amount of rust and pitting. Man…I was sure hoping that this wouldn’t be a wall hanger. I guess I need to get it in to a qualified smith. Maybe a “re-tube” could be a possibility?

 

[poker]

Dow, get yourself a bore brush and have at it. Pull the locks and lubricate them too. You might get it cleaned up enough to shoot. Do be cautious of deep pits though. My thoughts are unless your gunsmith is a close freind or relation, you would certainly sink more in the shotgun than you could buy a nice one for. Its not real difficult to do your own maintenance. Good luck!

 

[Texican65]

Dow, get yourself a bore brush and have at it. Pull the locks and lubricate them too. You might get it cleaned up enough to shoot. Do be cautious of deep pits though. My thoughts are unless your gunsmith is a close freind or relation, you would certainly sink more in the shotgun than you could buy a nice one for. It’s not real difficult to do your own maintenance. Good luck!

Ok…good advice, thank you. I’m not in any kind of rush…so I’ll try cleaning her up and bit and see how it goes. And read up on how to properly load and fire it.

I’ve been thinking that over actually…as it’s a lesser grade shotgun, it’s probably not worth sinking a bunch of $$$ into. For the price of all these repairs…I could have a new one.

Decisions, decisions….

 

[Texican65]

Who’s a Damascus guru on the site that I could ask questions or potentially have them check it out?

Thanks,

Dow

 

[OldRust]

@Feltwad for one , from the other side of the pond for questions. Nice shotgun, hopefully it will turn out to be a shooter for you. I have a few English & Belgian made that turned out well and a few Belgians & English made that turned out to be nice wallhangers.

Best of luck,
O.R.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Texican65,
Your barrels are laminated steel not damascus. Laminated steel was a process in which plates of steel and iron were layered and then hammered into the flat skelp to make the raw material for barrels rather than strands of steel and iron twisted together and then forged into the skelp. According to W. W. Greener, laminated steel barrels were the strongest of the barrels made with a mix of iron and steel. My muzzleloading SxS pheasant gun has Belgian laminated steel barrels and it shoots wonderfully. Swab your bore with steel wool wrapped around a cleaning jag to polish it a little and then take a good look at the pitting. Hopefully it is not deep and extensive.

dave

 

[Texican65]

Hi Texican65,
Your barrels are laminated steel not damascus. Laminated steel was a process in which plates of steel and iron were layered and then hammered into the flat skelp to make the raw material for barrels rather than strands of steel and iron twisted together and then forged into the skelp. According to W. W. Greener, laminated steel barrels were the strongest of the barrels made with a mix of iron and steel. My muzzleloading SxS pheasant gun has Belgian laminated steel barrels and it shoots wonderfully. Swab your bore with steel wool wrapped around a cleaning jag to polish it a little and then take a good look at the pitting. Hopefully it is not deep and extensive.

dave

Interesting…thank you for the information. Since reading your comment, I’ve been doing a fair amount of reading on the different barre types.

I read somewhere that makers of the cheaper imported shotguns would sometimes label the barrels laminated steel, when in fact they were of twist steel design.

As indicated, mine say Laminated Steel, but they have pretty clear weld joints where it appears that it’s twist steel. Would laminated steel have those markings?

Thanks,

Dow