pouring pewter bands

[matt denison]

I've got a question for the experienced pewter pourers among this group of gifted craftsmen.

I've been experimenting with pouring pewter bands and have tried several methods with little success. I've been wrapping various materials around round objects that I have reliefed about 1/4", made a sprue hole, tried improvised funnels etc. to get the pewter to pour INTO the band. It always seems clumsy, doesn't fill out well or don't get complete pour. I'm thinking there might be a trick that I'm missing.

I've done quite a bit of pewter pouring on bigger projects (nose caps and bolsters on knives etc.) so I know the basics. Does anybody have a technique or pouring bands like on 'hawk handles that they'd like to share?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[mazo kid]

Hi Matt, do you mean like this? The 'hawk was done for me a few years ago by a friend who has moved and I don't know how to contact him anymore. I'll try to find him and see if he can tell us how he did it. Sure hope someone can give you an answer.

 

[matt denison]

Yep, that's what I'm talking about.

I'm currently trying to pour bands on a field rod (1/2" hickory) for practice. I "almost" get it right but always a problem and have to tear out the pewter and start over. After three attempts got frustrated and decided to ask the craftsmen here. I've wrapped with a variety of material and the last one was with aluminum from a beer can.

 

[matt denison]

Mazo, that's a beautiful 'hawk. Thanks for posting the pic.

 

[Glenfilthie]

Wow!

Yes Mazo, speak to your wizard and have him enlighten us! I have a hawk coming in from the turkeys at TOTW and I want to embellish it like that.

I am sure it will be quite easy to do....( :bull: )

Dog, I am no expert, I have never done this before, so take my scholarly opinion with some very large grains of salt and skepticism:

If you are getting an incomplete pour or the bands aren't filling out properly, I think that the reason might be that your metal isn't hot enough. The metal is cooling and solidifying before it can fill the bands. If it were me I would (very carefully) either go for more heat or a faster pour.

(Don't take my advice though, wait until one of the experts weighs in...) :thumbsup:

 

[2172]

just poured my first bolster. I tried a lot of wrap materials, but a strip of an aluminum 7 up can worked, wire tied, and I plugged the bottom using the clay-like sculpti material..since that is supposed to harden when baked ,it worked.. I gave the knife to a grandson, so n pic's..am going to try another using scales of bone (stolen from my dogs' chaw bones) am having a hard time getting the slabs flat..Hank

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

I know nuthin 'bout it. But! I read that you can use manila folder as a mold/dam. Plus what I've read about sand-casting, you need air vents. Some fine holes for the air bubble to exit and not block the metal flowing into the sprue. A couple fine holes (#52?) beside the sprue might just get you there. Think about the fine slots cut into the face of your round-ball mould. :v

 

[LaBonte]

Matt I pour a lot of pewter and know well of the problems you are facing and here's a couple of hints...

1) Rather than undercutting the edges drill several small holes (1/16" or so) at an angle along both edges about a 1/16" or so into the relief. A slight undercut is OK but too much and it can burn.

2) After making your relief cut use a soft pencil and cover the whole relief area with the pencil which is graphite - this makes the pewter flow better.

3) I use manila folder stock for my forms - best/easiest thing I've found along with plenty of plain old nmasking tape. Do your wrap and then form a funnel into the top of the area - if you have the Gutchess book on pipehawks it shows how, but if not let me know.
On the side opposite the funnel put a PIN hole - and I mean a single pin hole using a regular sewer's straight pin. The hole needs to be only big enough to release air. After making the hole use a a couple of pieces of tape over the hole area, but don't seal it tight - just enough coverage to keep too much of the pewter from leaking out yet loose enough to allow air release.

4) The right heat is important - it needs to be about 50-75°F HIGHER than the melt temp. This is the correct flow temp - some sources for casting metals will give you both temps, use the flow temp not the melt temp. Don't go too much higher though or you can burn things.
For pouring pewter I use my old Lyman bottom pour ladle - the type with the teat for pouring through. Heat the ladle up in the melted pewter - the object is to keep the pewter hot so it flows.

5) To repair minor flaws I use TIX solder which melts at about half the temp of pewter - use a heat controlled source (i.e. soldering iron or heat gun) that has enough heat to melt the solder but not the pewter. I use a heat gun set at 375° which melts the solder but not the pewter.

Hope that helps......Matt if you want to pick my brain more give me a shout via phone 970-259-8396 Tand I'm on mountain time.........

 

[matt denison]

Thanks Chuck.

The pin hole is going to make a difference. I could tell from my results that air was getting trapped but didn't know how to vent it. I had dreamed up all sorts of vent ideas including a cocktail straw (don't laugh now).. Pour temp vs. melt temp may be a problem as I am used to simply melting the pewter in a stainless steel table spoon that I shaped into a narrow pouring ladle and have used a lot in the past for more open pours like knife bolsters etc. I tried my bottom pour ladel (Lee) and had given it up as a poor idea. I'll try it again.

Forming a funnel. Use my imagination I guess. My last attempt I wrapped with the aluminum from a can and used a small brass fullel through a larger hole in the aluminum. I at least got most of the pewter in the pour that time. Pewter doesn't want to go through small holes, it gobs up and rolls off. Dang it!

 

[mazo kid]

Matt, I've got some lines out hoping to contact my friend. Are you pouring with your bands horizontal or vertical? On the few items I've poured, (nose caps and butt caps mostly) I pour from the top using the pencil graphiting and drilled 1/8" holes like LaBonte has mentioned. I melt in a small stainless cup and pour just after the pewter is known to be completely molten. Never had any freeze-ups or scorched wood. Also might help to use a heat gun and (carefully) warm up the wood prior to melting and pouring.

 

[Bill Hall]

I do alot of pewter/wood stuff that is close to what you are talking about, and found that pouring isn't the only technique to consider. There is also soldering (walking a molten puddle around the groove with a soldering iron), but that takes perfect timing, skill, and patience. And there is the inlay technique. It works really great for narrow bands, like the one on the handle of Mazo's hawk. You just need to be able to solder the ends together for a flawless joint.

If I were set on pouring a band on a handle, I would use aluminum foil, but only make half a mold, with the top half open to the air. Kind of like a cup around the wood. That way you could pour around the mold from the top, and even swish it around before it hardens. There would be alot more waste that would need to be scraped off, but you can save the shavings to be used another time. I do.

I hope this description makes sense, Good luck. Bill

 

[matt denison]

" with the top half open to the air"

That was going to be my next experiment.

Now I plan to just make a huge sprue hole and a vent hole on the opposite side like LaBonte sugested. Pouring bands is a lot different than open pouring like bolsters or nose caps.

BTW, I am using real pewter from a bunch of antique sugar bowls and creamers that I've collected over the years. (they were beat up dented ones, not valuable at all) I'm wondering if I should flux it or add a pinch of tin...?