Powder Charge for EuroArms 1861 Springfield?

[aragornelessar86]

What's the right charge here? I'm reading anywhere between 45 and 70 grains. I bought it used so I got no paperwork.

Also, is it safe to shoot patched ball from this thing, or will that create too great a pressure? (aka, is this thing designed for minis, or can I use whichever I want?)

 

[varsity07840]

The service load was 60 gr. of musket powder(close to 2F)behind a minie. 70 gr makes potent deer hunting load. For target work alot of skirmishers
use around 45 gr of 3F. In all cases the minie should be sized .001-.002 smaler than your bore size. Patched roundballs can shoot very well out of a rifled musket that has a slow twist. I believe the Euroarms is 1 in 72. With equivalent
charges, pressures are actually a bit higher with
a 500 gr minie because it weighs almost twice as much as the roundball. You'll be surprised at the recoil fron a 60 gr. charge and the minie. I shoot 90 gr of 2F and a .570 patched ball in my Whitney '41 Mississippi.

Duane

 

[ord sgt]

I have a reproduction 1853 Enfield with a .577 barrel and shoot a .575 Rapine mould minie in front of 44 grains of FFFg Goex black powder. A lot of breakable targets have disappeared with that load. If you want to hunt with that rifle, a heavier charge will work but for targets, go with a lighter load of powder. The lighter load won't beat your shoulder so you can shoot for a longer period of time. On some days, I can go thru 150 rounds and not be sore from the recoil.

 

[aragornelessar86]

Awesome, thanks so much guys. I'm going shooting this weekend with it for the first time so I'll start with 45 and go up from there.

 

[billandbeaufort]

I use a sixty grain load with a 570 grain Lyman old style minni lubed with bore butter on the sides only. Works fine for me. I do have a digital scale ordered and will wiegh my loads and minnies once I get it. I'm just trying to get it as accurate as I can for target use at 100 yards as I don't hunt. How are your sights working out for you? I had to order blank rear sights from S&S in order to get it to shoot high enough!

 

[silverfox]

Yours must be the rare gun as most I have been around with the 60 gr. load all shot high. They were designed to shoot high as they are military rifles. Thats why a lot of shooter use 30 to 40 gr. loads for target. Even then some have to put taller front sights on their guns to do target work between 50 and 100 yards. An out of the box Minnie rifle is not a target rifle without working on the sights.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[fallaloosa]

Yours must be the rare gun as most I have been around with the 60 gr. load all shot high. They were designed to shoot high as they are military rifles. Thats why a lot of shooter use 30 to 40 gr. loads for target. Even then some have to put taller front sights on their guns to do target work between 50 and 100 yards. An out of the box Minnie rifle is not a target rifle without working on the sights.
Fox :hatsoff:

I'm a bit confused here, why would military rifles be designed to shoot high? Wouldn't that just be a waste?

 

[aragornelessar86]

nah, if it goes a little high you'll hit someone behind, if it goes short, you'll just hit the dirt. At least that's what I can come up with.

 

[fallaloosa]

just makes no sense to me, that a rifle is designed to shoot high. Those things were accurate to 800 yards in the right hands. I doubt they were ever meant to shoot high. :v

 

[bingo1952]

In combat you want to see all of your target. In that situation you ain't out there shooting for groups only a hit. Group shooting in the field will get you killed. :surrender:

 

[paulvallandigham]

In combat, the soldiers in these old days were taught to point at the waist and belt buckles of the oncoming soldiers. If the enemy soldier was clost, the hit would be high in the chest. If further away, the hit would be at the solar plesus, or in the stomach. That is why the sights were set high. The same thing happened with the Colt Revolvers sold to the U.S. Army. They were required to be regulated to hit a man on a horse at 50 yards. Since revolvers were rarely fired at such a distance, you would think this is silly. But, when you understand that soldiers were trained to aim at the stomach so that high sights would deliver a bullet to the chest or neck area, at close range, but at longer range would hit at POA, it makes some sense.

 

[Jerry Coffee]

If you are a beginner, keep it simple. I was a beginner in BP rifle shooting about a year ago .

I have only one 50 gr. powder measure for my Armi Sport .577 cal., P.53 Enfield rifle musket. I use 50 gr. 3fg GOEX BP and Moyer's precast Lyman 575213-OS minies. Fortunatly I ordered an ample supply of those minies six months ago because Moyer's now has a 2 month (or more) waiting period to ship the Lyman 575213-OS minies because of time required casting them and the demand. You can get also the Lyman 575213-OS minies from Dixie Gun Works, their part number is BU0901.
I thought about getting a adjustable powder measure for experimenting but chose not to because I have 50 red nylon quick-load reusable cartridge tubes and they barely hold 50 gr. 3fg GOEX with the nose of the minie secured in the tube with the grease grooves exposed for lubing. I size the Old Style minies in a Dixie Gun Works GA1103 .575" sizer die chucked in a small vise with a hammer and punch. I knock the minies through the .575" sizer twice. I recommend you get one of those handy little sizer dies and size each minie to .575" for consistant loading and shooting.

After I load the red nylon 50 gr. cartriges with powder and ball, I dip-lube the grease rings of the minie in melted SPG. That also helps seal and hold the nylon cartridge to the minie. I bought a $17 hot-plate from Wal-Mart and it melts the SPG nicely in a old tuna fish can. Nothing fancy, just simple and uncomplicated.

I tried loads to 65 gr. and down to 40 gr. 3fg GOEX BP and I decided to simplify things and use 50 gr. load with one 50 gr. powder measure and the Lyman 575213-OS 460 gr. minie.

 

[Trot]

1st Texas, what kind of groups do you get with your enfield with the .575 minies? My armi sport Springfield has been giving me fits lately about getting a decent group.

 

[Gote Rider]

That is the exact same thing a man told me several weeks ago. It all makes sense when you think about it.

 

[varsity07840]

1st Texas, what kind of groups do you get with your enfield with the .575 minies? My armi sport Springfield has been giving me fits lately about getting a decent group.

.575 is probably going to be too small in a Springfield unless your bore size is less than .58.

Duane

 

[Trot]

Yes, I think I am going to have to go to .579 to get any accuracy. I was just wondering if the Armisport Enfield had a different size bore than their Springfield. I know the originals were different, I assumed Armisport would use the same rifling equipment for both models.

 

[Jerry Coffee]

I have not been shooting my P.53 Enfield long enough to establish a pattern with the .575" Old Style mines but I am consistanly on the paper at 100 yards with every shot. I noticed the 575213-OS, 460 gr. minies have a lighter recoil than the heavier Lyman 573213-PH, 510 gr. minies. I shoot my Walker Colt 44 revolver also using 50 gr. 3f GOEX and can do just as good as my P.53 Enfield at 100 yards.

The light weight 460 gr. the Old Style minie really drops off past 150-200 yards but is on target at closer ranges. The owner/manager of the rifle range, who is a veteran BP shooter, told me that the Old Style minies shoot best with 50 gr. 3f if your rifle has slow twist rifling (1:66" - 1:78") and I found that to be correct. He also said the 575213-PH, 566 gr. and other minies over 500 gr. shoot better in fast (1:48") rifling. I think the 1:48" bores are "choke" rifled, meaning the rifling is .015" deep at the breech and .005" deep at the muzzle. Any gas cutting (blow by) occurs at ignition before the minie fully expands into the rifling.

My Armi Sport P.53 Enfield is supposed to have 1:66" rifling but I have never had a gunsmith verify it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Trot: Never assume anthing concerning the dimensions of your barrel MEASURE IT with calipers and KNOW what the barrel bore diameter( land to land) and the groove depth. Particularly with reproductions, you can get a lot of variations. Ony after ou know exactly what the bore diameter IS should you be choosing any size ball, or patch thickness. Using what your buddy bought is just shooting craps!

 

[Trot]

Well aware of that Paul,it measures a good full.580 bordering on .581. .578's aren't quite cutting it hence the move to .579.

 

[Jerry Coffee]

I can tell what size the bore is by how the minie loads with the ramrod. A .575" Old Style minie loads smooth in my .577" P53 Enfield. If it was a .58" caliber bore, a .575" minie would drop down the bore or load with a ramrod with little or no effort or just by the weight of the ramrod.

When I received my P53 Enfield, out of curisoity, I measured the bore with vernier calipers and it was right on .577" land to land and .583" groove to groove, at the muzzle. It does not feel like it is choke rifled like a Parker Hale barrel.

If you want .576" or .577" minies you may have to cast and size them yourself because I cannot find any precast minies that are larger than .575" unless you use Maxi-balls. I am not going to cast minies because it is too much trouble and besides, I don't like to risk brain damage from handling lead or breathing lead fumes.

I have some Confederate Gardner 2-ring style minies from Track of the Wolf that were supposed to be made from the 577611, 540 gr. mold and they are also .575" diameter and push through my .575" die with no more effort than does the 575213-OS.