...well a relative newbie - returning after many years and don't remember a darn thing. Asked a powder question earlier and got a great set of answers - thanks to all who responded. Introduced myself in the The Camp section and had several 'local' folks offer to tutor and I will take em up onit but it will be a while before I can travel there so I am asking here. Is there any differences between powder makers? Can I just by some 3F and 2F and try em or is there more to it than that. Heck - Im not even sure how/what to ask. Is there a powder primer somewhere? A table of charges for various calibers?
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powder question from a newbie...
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K12Rider said:
Yup, it's actualy about as simple as that.
Now of course some have finer points and some have undesirable traits, but for the most part they all go bang.
Some of the newer Black powder replicas have much higher flash points and don't work real well in Traditional cap locks and some won't work at all in flint locks.
Are you in an area where true Black powder is availabe or is it all the new stuff?
If we had an idea what's available to ya we could offer more precise advice an experiances with the particular powders, :wink:
I copied this from DGW site...however many guys use the 3f for larger calibers and some use 2f for smaller calibers...just depends on what each particular gun likes.....
What type of black powder should I use?
Black powder is available in the following granulation:
CARTRIDGE -- used for loading black powder cartridges,
FFFFG -- finest granulation, used for priming flintlocks,
FFFG -- used in black powder pistols, cap and ball revolvers and muzzleloading rifles of 45 caliber and smaller,
FFG -- used in muzzleloading rifles larger than 45 caliber,
FG -- used in large bore shotguns (8 gauge or larger) and cannons.
What type of black powder should I use?
Black powder is available in the following granulation:
CARTRIDGE -- used for loading black powder cartridges,
FFFFG -- finest granulation, used for priming flintlocks,
FFFG -- used in black powder pistols, cap and ball revolvers and muzzleloading rifles of 45 caliber and smaller,
FFG -- used in muzzleloading rifles larger than 45 caliber,
FG -- used in large bore shotguns (8 gauge or larger) and cannons.
Yup, and IMO the Dixie information is good as far as it goes.
It was written years ago and muzzleloader shooters have found that it could have gone a bit further.
3Fg powder seems to work rather well in some .50 and larger calibers but because of its quicker burning rate it generates pressure faster than 2Fg powder. That's why many of us recommend to anyone wanting to use 3Fg in the larger calibers they should consider reducing the powder load about 10 percent.
It is kinda unusual in todays world for someone to ask about burning the courser 2Fg powder in a pistol but there isn't any good reason for not doing it (except it will probably leave more fouling in the gun).
I'm sure over the past 250 years it's been done before.
It was written years ago and muzzleloader shooters have found that it could have gone a bit further.
3Fg powder seems to work rather well in some .50 and larger calibers but because of its quicker burning rate it generates pressure faster than 2Fg powder. That's why many of us recommend to anyone wanting to use 3Fg in the larger calibers they should consider reducing the powder load about 10 percent.
It is kinda unusual in todays world for someone to ask about burning the courser 2Fg powder in a pistol but there isn't any good reason for not doing it (except it will probably leave more fouling in the gun).
I'm sure over the past 250 years it's been done before.
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My sense is that you are asking about brands rather than granulation.
There is a consensus that Swiss is superior and expensive. The choice for high-stakes rifle matches.
GOEX, Schutzen (aka Wano, and Graff), and Kik have all worked very well for me. GOEX is US made, and some folks find one to be slightly cleaner than another, but I haven't found a consensus on this. They are pretty interchangeable.
Elephant and Black Diamond are less well known, and there have been some damaging reports on both, and also some good reports. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a can of either to try, but I've baulked at try 25 lbs. A lot of this depends on intended use.
They will all work for reenacting, probably for shot loads as well (one poster uses reenacting powder for his shot loads and is pleased with it). I mostly shoot SxS shotguns, more or less English style, and as long as it is BP it has worked for me. Recently I switched from Graff to Kik in my fast twist rifle and point of aim was not measurably different. With that in mind I keep a close eye on price.
There is a consensus that Swiss is superior and expensive. The choice for high-stakes rifle matches.
GOEX, Schutzen (aka Wano, and Graff), and Kik have all worked very well for me. GOEX is US made, and some folks find one to be slightly cleaner than another, but I haven't found a consensus on this. They are pretty interchangeable.
Elephant and Black Diamond are less well known, and there have been some damaging reports on both, and also some good reports. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a can of either to try, but I've baulked at try 25 lbs. A lot of this depends on intended use.
They will all work for reenacting, probably for shot loads as well (one poster uses reenacting powder for his shot loads and is pleased with it). I mostly shoot SxS shotguns, more or less English style, and as long as it is BP it has worked for me. Recently I switched from Graff to Kik in my fast twist rifle and point of aim was not measurably different. With that in mind I keep a close eye on price.
These days there are factors many of us did not always have to contend with in years past. Cost and availability. You might be forced to get what you can. Many of todays shooters are using 3Fg almost exclusively, even in larger bore guns. Get a well known brand (Goex, Schutzen, Swiss, etc.) in 3Fg and just work up your loads from mild to what works best. I also suggest, when you find powder buy as much as your budget can stand and have a supply on hand. A few months later, if you don't have a supply you might find yourself admiring your gun with no powder to shoot it with. And don't expect prices to drop.
OK - thanks to all - great info and much appreciated. Now where can I find some data on what is a mild load (can imagine getting a bullet stuck in the barrel) and what is a max load? In my other hobby of handloading centerfire ammo it is as simple as looking it up in book. Are there any tables out there to start from?
What are the caliber of the gun's you have?
Here's the PDF file for T/C's Traditional muzzle loaders. It has the starting and Max loads for their guns in several calibers as well as all the saftey protochol and steps for loading. Most modern replica Traditional muzzle loaders in good condition will follow the same guide lines.
Load data begins around page 71, but it's a good idea to read the book, :wink:
http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/noncurrent/Shooting_TC_Side_Lock_Black_Powder_Guns.pdf
Here's the PDF file for T/C's Traditional muzzle loaders. It has the starting and Max loads for their guns in several calibers as well as all the saftey protochol and steps for loading. Most modern replica Traditional muzzle loaders in good condition will follow the same guide lines.
Load data begins around page 71, but it's a good idea to read the book, :wink:
http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/noncurrent/Shooting_TC_Side_Lock_Black_Powder_Guns.pdf
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K12Rider said:
A rule of thumb for starting loads is the same as your rifle caliber. e.g. .50 cal. start with 50 grains of bp behind a lubricated patched round ball of pure soft lead. Shoot, shoot, shoot and work up five grains at a time (from the bench at 50 yards) until you find the load that gives optimum accuracy. That load will also (probably) be a good load for much of your hunting requirements. If more is desired you can boost. But do stick around here and see with others use in their similar caliber rifles for hunting.
Well thanks again for all the help. I have been slow in my progress as l-i-f-e and the j-o-b have hindered me plus I am about to get married but I digress. I am now in the possession of a lb of Hodgon Triple 7 FF and a lb of FFF and 2 tins of #11 primers.
Just so you know, Triple 7 is a substitute for traditional black powder and is more energetic than brands such as Goex so you need to reduce your powder charges by 15% when using it. As has been mentioned, a good starting load using traditional BP is as many grains as caliber; 50 caliber = 50 grains of traditional BP (by volume) or 43 grains by volume of T-7. Lyman lists the max charges for a 50 cal shooting (Goex)K12Rider said:
2f at 110 grains & 90 gr.s 3f
Using T-7;
94 grains of 2f
77 grains of 3f
You will still increase by 5 grains after 3 shots when determining the best powder load for your rifle.
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