Powder residue question...

[MAN - GA]

Just curious on this question...

At the range I wipe 1x down and out as per Dutch method with a spit patch. Been noticing the residue having red spots on the patch. Is the red spots a byproduct of blackpowder combustion or something else - sometimes it is visible in the bore at the muzzle as well where there is enough daylight to see

 

[Billnpatti]

I, too, use the Dutch Schoultz method of wiping my bore between shots but I have never encountered any red stuff coming from my bore. I shoot Goex in all of my rifles and never have found any red stuff as a residue....or any other red stuff. It may be something in your lube. I don't know what you are using as a patch lube but that is the only possibility I can think of. Unless the red stuff is possibly rust that has accumulated in your bore from improper cleaning and oiling. :idunno:

 

[MAN - GA]

TOW mink oil is the patch lube
I wipe down before first shot and only thing coming out on patch is a little residual oil nothing resembling rust - red spots look about the size of a seed tick and red. Also shoot Goex

Will try to photograph this weekend

 

[Billnpatti]

Okay, I'm stumped. :surrender: I got nothing. :idunno: I'd say to find the most experienced and knowledgable shooter in your club and have him (or her) take a look at the red "stuff" and see if they know what it is.

 

[BrownBear]

I recall a lengthy thread some time back on the red spots. Don't recall when, or the details for that matter, but it was bounced around pretty good. Might go to searching back through the pages.

 

[ZUG]

The "red stuff" is a by-product of burning black powder during SOME climate changes. This occurrence does not always happen. If the humidity is "just right" and your powder charge is at a certian velocity you will get the "red flakes" around the muzzle and on a swabing patch. I've had it happen a few times with my .45 cal rifle with a 34" barrel shooting 60 grains of GOEX and a .440 ball with a .015 greased patch. Does not happen all the time just when the weather temp and humidity is just right . It is nothing to worry about - some say this is the best accuracy for the velocity but I think not - just a reaction to the weather conditions at the time :thumbsup: .

 

[Critter Getter]

I learn something new everyday hanging around this forum! Greg.

 

[MAN - GA]

Okay, I'm stumped. :surrender: I got nothing. :idunno: I'd say to find the most experienced and knowledgable shooter in your club and have him (or her) take a look at the red "stuff" and see if they know what it is.

Wish I had a club - right now it consists of this forum and my kids (9, 12, 14) - we have a heck of a good time though

 

[MAN - GA]

The "red stuff" is a by-product of burning black powder during SOME climate changes. This occurrence does not always happen. If the humidity is "just right" and your powder charge is at a certian velocity you will get the "red flakes" around the muzzle and on a swabing patch. I've had it happen a few times with my .45 cal rifle with a 34" barrel shooting 60 grains of GOEX and a .440 ball with a .015 greased patch. Does not happen all the time just when the weather temp and humidity is just right . It is nothing to worry about - some say this is the best accuracy for the velocity but I think not - just a reaction to the weather conditions at the time :thumbsup: .

This does make sense I don't see it all the time - we do a lot of shooting during Sept. preparing for hunting season and it is generally lower humidity here in GA by then

 

[Claude Mathis]

I recall a lengthy thread some time back on the red spots.

There were more, but these might help...
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/278216
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/257086
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/252015
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/231449

 

[Zonie]

In the past, the red flakes or streaks were called "Dragon blood".

Seeing it in the fouling or at the muzzle was supposed to indicate your powder load was "perfect".

Actually, it is sulfur that had condensed to one of the many different forms of sulfur.

Heating sulfur in a test tube to the melting point will make the same sort of red sulfur if you get it hot enough.

 

[Dr5x]

Some years ago there was some talk about some powder providers using something that created small red specks in the powder residue as a "marker"/ It was alleged to be a way to identify the source of the powder.

I haven't heard this mentioned for the last 10or 15 years.

Dutch 62

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Sometimes I get the "red flecks" when cleaning my rifle or musket, not using Dutch's system, and it's merely (from what I can observe) a by product of the black powder deflagration.

:idunno:

LD

 

[Billnpatti]

Wish I had a club - right now it consists of this forum and my kids (9, 12, 14) - we have a heck of a good time though

Okay, ask the 14 year old. He (she) is a teenager and they know everything. :haha:

 

[Zonie]

Some years ago there was some talk about some powder providers using something that created small red specks in the powder residue as a "marker"/ It was alleged to be a way to identify the source of the powder.

I haven't heard this mentioned for the last 10or 15 years.

Dutch 62

Sounds to me like a perfect example of how many falsehoods get started.

Someone sees some red flecks.
Someone else who trusts no one (especially the Government) jumps to the conclusion that Big Brother is trying to track anything that has to do with guns.

I'm not suggesting that the "tracking" idea hasn't been proposed. It has with smokeless powder but, it was not used after testing.

"Would you look at that Maude?
Some Gubernment agent must have put some tracking device out in our yard and now I've left tracks clear across the living room rug!"

"Harold. Take those shoes outside and scrape the dog manure off of them.
When your done with that, get back in here and clean the manure up the carpet! You hear?"

:rotf:

 

[William O.]

Some years ago there was some talk about some powder providers using something that created small red specks in the powder residue as a "marker"/ It was alleged to be a way to identify the source of the powder.

I haven't heard this mentioned for the last 10or 15 years.

Dutch 62

Sounds to me like a perfect example of how many falsehoods get started.

Someone sees some red flecks.
Someone else who trusts no one (especially the Government) jumps to the conclusion that Big Brother is trying to track anything that has to do with guns.

I'm not suggesting that the "tracking" idea hasn't been proposed. It has with smokeless powder but, it was not used after testing.

"Would you look at that Maude?
Some Gubernment agent must have put some tracking device out in our yard and now I've left tracks clear across the living room rug!"

"Harold. Take those shoes outside and scrape the dog manure off of them.
When your done with that, get back in here and clean the manure up the carpet! You hear?"

:rotf:

I think Dutch is referring to what the ATF proposed many years ago that all manufacturers of smokeless and black powder be required to have chemical flakes in their powder that identified the source, called "Taggants". This research started in the 1970's.
Black and Smokeless Powders: Technologies for Finding Bombs and the Bomb Makers

Anyway, as has been noted, the red flakes happen when the temperature and humidity are just right. I've seen them before and it's not rust.

 

[Grenadier1758]

There is no mystery about the red flakes. As has been stated before, the red flakes or sometimes drops are from the sulfur that is part of the black powder formula. It takes the right temperature and humidity conditions for the flakes to form.

 

[William O.]

Yep, and I freaked out the first time I saw them on my cleaning patches too. It helps to know someone who has enough shooting experience to let you know what's really going on.