POWDER STORAGE QUESTION

[Zonie]

Now that I'm retired, I seem to have extra time to think about things.
Although it was always on my mind, the thought of "What would happen if my house caught fire with the black powder I have stored in it?" has been coming to the forefront more often.

Now, I really don't know, but in my mind I can visualize the 10 pounds of Black Powder raising my house maybe 4 feet vertically and dispersing the fragments over a 200 yard radius from its current location.
This, coupled with the thought of being sued into the poor house because a few fireman were killed while trying to save my house from the flames is a concern.

With that in mind I have decided to move the powder to an outside storage box located far enough from the house so the heat from a major fire shouldn't raise its temperature to the critical 400 degrees F. Black Powder needs to ignite.

The current plan is to bolt a heavy steel tool box with a locked lid to the concrete block fence in my back yard.
It will be bolted to the fence with Moly toggle bolts going thru a strap of angle iron on the inside. The weakest point will be the locking hasp.
It will be shaded during the heat of the day and as you all know, it never rains in Arizona so moisture shouldn't be a big problem.

I have painted it a nice primer gray which kinda matches the fence and there will be some vegetation growing on both sides so it will be somewhat concealed.

Because it will be locked, the average nosey kid that sneeks into my back yard won't be able to easily open it. I don't think he/she would even try very hard because as far as they know it contains things like gardening tools or whatever and that brings me to my question.
Would it be better to mark EXPLOSIVES -DANGER- EXPLOSIVES on the outside to warn them away, or just leave it unmarked so they won't suspect?
Which would be the least likely to be considered "an attractive nuisance?


Zonie "Keep your Eyes Peeled"

 

[Rebel]

Zonie, as far as your locker goes it is hard to say. Legally, you would probably be better off marking it. That way nobody can break in and say they didn't know what was in there. But then you run the risk of people breaking in just because it says EXPLOSIVES, so who knows. I always kept mine in an old fridge out in the garage. I have been told that the contents of refridgerators has been found still cold after a house fire. They are well insulated. And you can put a hasp and lock on it to make it more secure. And unless your thief is really Hungry, why take the time to break in to a fridge that they think has nothing but food in it?

 

[musketman]

With that in mind I have decided to move the powder to an outside storage box located far enough from the house so the heat from a major fire shouldn't raise its temperature to the critical 400 degrees F. Black Powder needs to ignite.

I would monitor the temperature in said storage shed, especially in your location with the Arizona sun beating down on it...

Usually sheds will have less ventilation than a house does to dispense the heat, so things will really heat up in there, it could pose a greater danger than the powder being in the house...

I would apt for an underground or semi-underground storage unit if I lived in your location, Earthen shelters keep a constant temperature during a wide range of extreme weather...

 

[catskin]

You might buy a certified powder magazine if your really worried about it?

like this

I think Dixie has one too.

 

Actually the safest place is in a stand alone freezer. The house could burn down around it, and the stuff inside will still be frozen. Sealed cans of BP won't be affected at all by the moisture of a freezer. By the way welcome to six Saturdays followed by Sunday, with mild interuptions for Honey doo's. Bill

 

[sidelock]

Ha Zonie----I was in Flagstaff a couple of weeks ago and you had 30" of snow ---- that ain't zaxtly DRY. Just kiddin your plan seems OK to me. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Another thought, is to go to yer local fire hall, and ask them for the color coding Hazmat lables. You can get them in a miniature size and post them on yer shed. They(the sign) will immediately tell them what's there, without it saying danger explosive. Bill

 

[AZ-Robert]

I agree that marking it is a good idea, just so the firemen that are taking care of the house recognize it. And for that you may not have to put "EXPLOSIVES" on it... maybe you could use one of those standard triangle things with the numbers on it, such as you see on freight trucks and so on.

 

[musketman]

Zonie, why don't you contact the fire marshal and get his/her recommendations as to where and how it should be stored and labeled???

And I don't mean this fire marshal... :rotf:

Fire Marshal Bill (Jim Carrey)

 

[riarcher]

I maybe wrong,,,, but from what I'm thinking,,, you're creating a bomb.
The ideal storage container (from my understanding) is something that offers the LEAST amount of containment.
Powder needs containment to go "BOOM".
10 lbs. of powder in a pile may sizzle and "swoosh" a good deal, but no boom. Steel storage therefore would be a "No thanks".
Straight weakly nailed Homosoat shead I'd think wouldbe better?

any other ideas????

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Zonie, I take a contrary view. I would never contain black powder in a steel box, (or any tightly sealed metal container) The last thing I would want is a bomb with steel fragments flying around. I have my BP located openly at several different separated and spaced out places in the garage. I used to keep it in a wooden cabinet with a 1/8" Baltic birch top secured with a few staples, but ceased to do even that.

If I was going to put it into a metal container, I would have a blowout device of very thin metal (as in aluminum roofing flashing at the most) for the top to direct the blast upwards.

 

[Claude Mathis]

You might buy a certified powder magazine if your really worried about it?

like this

I think Dixie has one too.

No thanks.

These steel containers look like big "pipe bombs" to me.

 

[Uncle Jed]

I would apt for an underground or semi-underground storage unit if I lived in your location, Earthen shelters keep a constant temperature during a wide range of extreme weather...

Them thar mountainy men buried their powder fer a good reason, not only to keep it from being stole, but to keep it from the heat as well. Granny thinks an external root cellar would be an ideal locality for bulk shootin powders, t'would keep your'n combustibles cool and dry and as a bonus its detached from your'n main livin shack.

 

[Swampman]

Black powder in it original cans, poses little threat. It will burn up like everything else. I keep mine in the closet here in my computer room.

 

[Roy]

what effect would lightning have on black powder in a steel box?

 

[boar]

Zonie Wow You got them minds working. I keep 5lbs in stairway going to basement for last 24yrs, I have had your same thoughts. Dilly

 

[Two Trails]

As an ex Army demolition man the last thing I'd ever do with my BP is to contain it in a nice tight box. A contained explosion is a totally different animal than an uncontained one. If you have access to any kind of firecrackers you can see this in action. A loose one on the ground goes bang. Contain the explosion and watch how fast it can get hairy.
Two Trails

 

[Bob Riegl]

The above pictured magazine is not a "tight" box. The upper lid is loosely fit and held in place by two small locks ( to keep junior little clam hooks from nosing around ). The purpose of this is no to contain the explosion, as it is designed to blow off expending the force upwards.

 

[riarcher]

By-the-way;
Probably the SAFEST way to store it wouldbe as close as you can get to- Loose in a Zip-Lock Baggie hanging from a shade tree in the back yard (but not over the grill! :nono: )
Think I'll just keep storing it in the back room with all the other "boomable/flamable" items. If it goes,,,, it'll REALLY GO!

 

[roundball]

Now, I really don't know, but in my mind I can visualize the 10 pounds of Black Powder raising my house maybe 4 feet vertically and dispersing the fragments over a 200 yard radius from its current location.
This, coupled with the thought of being sued into the poor house because a few fireman were killed while trying to save my house from the flames is a concern.

Well, if it'll give you peace of mind, then you should consider doing something like that...however, IMO, blackpowder is not nitro or dynamite of course and I wonder if we may be over sensitive about it.

When I order a case to have delivered to my front porch, it travels hundreds of miles cross country, is loaded/unloaded from truck to truck, sits in hot warehouses and hot trucks over the course of days...and that all happens with 25 cans lined up inside a simple cardboard box...by the time a carton reaches my porch, it looks like it's been through a war zone, but the cans are perfect.

I just store the cardboard case of cans on the floor of a closet in a room I use for a hobby stuff...have a partial case of Goex 2F and a partial case of Goex 3F right now...there are no kids to get into it, no traffic passes by it what-so-ever, no ignition sources around it...the only way that BP is going to ignite is if the house burns down to the ground around it...even then, each can has a built in safety pressure burst point where the cans will burst, then flare vigorously making a lot of white smoke.

But they don't 'explode' like dynamite...it simply burns fast and produces gas/pressure...and as others have said, is why it should never be stored/contained in a strong, tightly sealed container or the container then becomes a bomb of sorts if it should burst violently from the pressure buildup inside.

I'd think there is far more danger from an outdoor grill propane tank cooking off in a house fire than cans of loose powder...my two cents.