Powder strength?

[Britsmoothy]

In all honesty, I am getting poor penertration!
Just of late no matter the size of shot it seems to not be penetrating very deep in small game and I am getting quite a bit of wounding of which is unacceptable.
I am going to increase powder volume next time out!

Is it possible to have weak powder as in its yield is low?
Has anyone here ever had to increase a charge due to low velocity of shot loads?

B.

 

[George]

Part of my working up shot loads is to check penetration at the ranges I'm expecting to shoot at game. It's not at all unusual for me to get an acceptable pattern but unacceptable penetration. I'll increase the charge of powder, usually, but sometimes reduce the shot to increase velocity until penetration is acceptable. Rarely I have switched to finer powder, same weight, to do the job. I like to use regular steel cans from canned food, and keep at it until most shot will penetrate both sides.

I've never had a situation where I thought the powder was weak, I just always assume I am using an unbalanced load, not enough powder or too much shot.

Spence

 

[jamesthomas]

Well, what kind of powder are you using over there?.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

In the past 4 years I have only used Kik FFg, and have not had any such problem. But, I can't say that I am a large sample.

 

[Spikebuck]

Never had a loss of power with an aged or open container of real black powder, Pyrodex, or 777.

I have had it happen, and substantially so, with American Pioneer Powder, which is why I never used it again.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Just maybe Britt......it's a perception issue...
As fall progresses the foliage disappears. Our shots can get farther and father away....
Everyone has trouble determining distance.....

It might explain your situation.....if you haven't changed anything else... :v

 

[Zonie]

Sure there is a difference in different brands of powders. There's even a difference in one brand of powder depending on what the lot number is but it's pretty small.

Lymans "BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL" shows three different powders under the same load in the same barrel.

For 75 grains of Goex 2Fg powder under a 1 1/8 oz load they got a muzzle velocity of 950 fps.

75 grains of Elephant 2Fg gave them a mv of 860 fps.

75 grains of Pyrodex RS gave them a mv of 820 fps.

That's a 16 percent drop between the Goex and the Pyrodex.

I think people loading heavy shot loads in an attempt to get denser patterns also end up losing a lot of velocity in the process.

For instance according to the Lyman book, going from a 1 1/8 oz shot load to a 1 1/2 oz shot load over a 82 grain load of Goex 2Fg powder drops the velocity from 980 fps to 800 fps for a 23 percent loss in velocity.

 

[texcl]

That elephant powder was weak stuff, I used it back when I competed in nssa. KIK and goex are both pretty good and hot plus they don't seem to be affected by moisture too much. Now pyrodex can be severely affected by moisture (humidity). I hunted in North carolina one year with an old percussion enfield musket and when the time came to fire it ejected the projectile on the ground and the remaining clump of powder fizzled on the ground. I checked my remaining paper cartridges and no water had penetrated the cartridge box but all the rest of the powder was sort of clumpy and wouldn't combust correctly. that was the last time I ever used pyrodex (that was back in the 90's). might be better now.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Brit - what do you store your powder in? Is it possible it's been absorbing moisture or oils/waxes from a container?

Set out a few soup or vegetable cans to test penetration. If you're piercing cans you'll kill small game at the same distances (Old Dixie Gun Works suggestion).

 

[coloradoclyde]

The advantage to using an empirical testing method like Spence described, is that when you have a question like the one presented you can re-test and have valuable comparative data to rule out things like weak powder...........

 

[coloradoclyde]

If he hasn't changed anything in how he loads.....I still think its a perception issue....

take a good hard look at shotguns pattern... and you will find enough holes to allow for many poor shots.....
Additionally animals put on additional fur and fat in the fall making good penetration even harder.

I'm just saying.... We shouldn't jump to any conclusions without evidence....

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thanks gents.
No sir it is not a range perception thing.
The powder is a shop branded powder from who knows where.
It is dry.

I have been tiping extra shot in the Bess yes!
Thanks Zonie for the quotations!
I only seem to have this issue with the Bess but have been using the same measure as I would for my 20g! I will rectify this!
Thanks all.

 

[Stumpkiller]

How big is the touch-hole? It's not unheard of that Bess barrels loose gobs of pressure from an eroded touch hole.

But certainly you might have an off batch. "Shop Branded" is kind of uncertain. Did they buy a lot that was rejected for manufacturer branded packaging? I can't imagine that is done . . . but I don't know that it is not. I don't know what makes the "Reenactor" designated powder different but maybe they're packaging that as regular black powder?

 

[Britsmoothy]

It has a decent sized flash hole I must say!

The powder could be fireworks grade :haha:

 

[nwtradegun]

I once had the misfortune of buying chinse brand that reacted the same. found out it was for fireworks and not meant for use in a rifle. it was crap/ also left the gun filthy.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The powder is a shop branded powder from who knows where.

It may benefit you to inquire about the source of the powder. And, for comparison, try to obtain a known brand and use that for a while.
BTW, I commend you for asking an excellent question. You want to be an ethical and humane hunter. Good on you. :applause:

 

[coloradoclyde]

More shot without more powder = less velocity and penetration....Combine that with your big vent , and you may have the answer.....

 

[jamesthomas]

It has a decent sized flash hole I must say!

The powder could be fireworks grade :haha:

I think I would be installing a ventliner myself, it would probably help with velocity and penetration.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Update, I upped the charge by about 25% and the shot by 30%+, probably 90-100grn.
It has more penertration on wood and game now, in fact recoil feels right, as in something is going on! :hatsoff:

B.