Powder Test: GRAFFS vs. GOEX

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Men,

I went to the range the other day to do some testing. Results were intersting. All shooting was done with my Bill Large, full stock Hawken 50 cal. Your results might be different.

First up was Graffs 3F. I have a big supply of this and was planning on using it at my match shoots this year. Using a 50 grain charge, .490 ball I cast myself, Ticking spitpatch cut at the muzzle, #11 Remington Cap, I proceeded to shoot without cleaning to see how much fouling developed. Accuracy was VERY good, all hitting into a very small group at 25 yards. At about 15 rounds, it was very hard to seat the PRB. After cleaning, it was good for another 15 before fouling picked back up.

Next was GOEX 3F with the same 50 grain charge, and same PRB. I fired no less than 50 rounds with no excess fouling. The first shot and the last shot slid down the barrel with the same force. Accuracy was of course outstanding, Fouling light.

Graffs powder would be just fine if a man wanted to clean after every 10 rounds or so. Accuracy was great, but the fouling does require cleaning.

I have been using Goex for 30 years and it looks like I won't be switching any time soon. Its wonderful accuracy and light fouling is just what I am after. I do not mind cleaning one bit, but the piece of mind that the first shot will go into the same group as my 50th is just what I want for match shooting.

Headhunter
 
Group testing at 25 yards makes it difficult to tell what is a good load, and what isn't. The balls just make too small a group.

Did you fire any groups out at 50 yards?

That seems to be the distance at which I have been able to separate good from " also-ran " charges I thought would be okay when I shot them at the 25 yard targets. Even then, I have to do some " tweaking " If I want to use a load at 100 yards. Not all the " good " 50 yard group loads are also good out at 100 yards.

Have you considered screening the Graf powder, and the Goex, and then comparing the two?
 
I have found the same thing also with Schuetzen powder. It shoots fine but fouls a little heavier than Goex. I think but am not certain that both the Schuetzen and the Graf powder is made by Wano. I think I am going to get off the bucks next time and give Swiss a go. It's supposed to be the bee's knees. :thumbsup:
 
paulvallandigham,

This test was not about accuracy, or how far to shoot, it was about FOULING.

Preeching to the Choir when you try to tell me how to work up a load. I think I have that covered.

Screen? Who has time to Screen?

HH
 
runnball said:
I have found the same thing also with Schuetzen powder. It shoots fine but fouls a little heavier than Goex. I think but am not certain that both the Schuetzen and the Graf powder is made by Wano.
Wow, I found it just the opposite in my 62 flint smoothie. I had fired 5-pounds of Schuetzen 3F powder and ran out :( . Switched to 3F Goex and it groups the same, appears to fire and hit the same, but it literally takes me TWICE as long to clean and TWICE as many patches to clean her up when using Goex.

Funny huh?? Our different experiences ...
 
Screening out the fines from any grade powder contributes to more uniform burning, and, I believe, less residue. Since you can buy screens cheaply from McMasters, and either make your own frames, or use the hoops sold in hobby stores for sewing, having your own screens is not a huge investment of either time or money. The fines work as priming powder at the range. Guys with flintlocks are always interested in finding some more 4F priming powder.

As far as the " time to screen" how much time does it take to pour the contents of a can of powder onto a screen, shake the screen enough to separate the fines, and then pour the remaining powder through a funnel( made with paper formed into a cone) back into the can? Use the same funnel to pour the fines into a jar or separate can. It might take 2 commercial breaks to screen 5 cans of powder- IF YOU GO SLOW! :thumbsup:
 
FWIW. Not about fouling but...... about comparing BP brands. If you can find it, there is a wonderfully complete article by Sherman Bell that appeared in the Winter 2004 issue of The Double Gun Journal, part of his "Finding Out for Myself" series, in which he compares black powder pressure variables for KIK (ffg and fffg), Goex (ffg/fffg), Swiss (1 1/2 fg and ffg), and Triple 7 ffg.
If you are interested and cannot find the article, PM me and, if I can get the scanner working, I'll send the relevant parts.
Bell used a cartridge rifle to gather the pressure data, a .450 - 3 1/4" Express rifle.
Particularly interesting was his info about how much the different powders weighed out at the same volume - a 3 1/2 dram measure threw 98.2 grs of KIK ffg but 115.0 grs of Swiss ffg. That would make a difference in performance, perhaps, and fouling too, I should think.
Pete
 
SS: Sorry, I'm not 100% sure what you mean by that question. The article reported about the pressure differences, etc. that Bell found using the different propellants. Some of that difference was attributable to the fact that using the BP by volume method with different powders can change the actual charge weight by nearly 20%.
Do you want the performance stats for KIK or the stats in general?
Pete
 
Runnball, you are correct...Wano makes the Scheutzen/Grafs powder. I just ordered a 25# case of BP and was gonna get some more Schuetzen, but the price difference was only $.50 per pound less than Goex. The last time I ordered, I think it was about $1.50 less. Went with the Goex. Emery
 
pretty much my experience, but I dry patch after every shot when plinking anyway, I use a thinner patch then the ball patch, I get tighter groups that way.
Grafs shoots good in my revolvers too.
but I hate to say that pyrodex does best in them for max hunting loads.
 
SS: OK. I'm away from home for the weekend. When I get back, I'll PM that to you. There was no info about Grafs. Not part of his test.
Pete
 

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