Practicing light load without ball?

[gmo]

Transitioning from percussion to flint. I have in mind loading 10-30 grains of powder with no ball just to practice some things like different flint sizes, amount of powder in the pan, and just reducing flinch factor (before it develops).

I am wondering how much powder would it take to at least fill the patent breach on a .50 TC Hawken to ensure reproduction of full-load conditions.

The reason I want to do this rather than full load with ball is because I don't have a range real close by but I can make a little noise at the house.

Yeah, some may say it is a waste of powder but I am looking at it as an investment. Have also considered shooting fire out the end and dry leaves. Really looking for any helpful advice or flat out warnings.

Thank you all.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Just prime the pan without any charge in the barrel. The flash of the pan seems to be what people flinch from.

 

[Felonious]

As long as you put an over powder card, the thicker the better, over top of your powder charge, you'll get a pretty decent boom. There's almost no recoil though, obviously.

I would avoid leaves for the fire hazard. It'd be pretty easy to blow embers out of your barrel, and have them around next time you load.

I like to practice with actual lead, and use patched round ball over a light powder charge, to keep the cost per shot down somewhat.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Or practice dry firing with a piece of wood in place of a flint.

 

[gmo]

Just prime the pan without any charge in the barrel. The flash of the pan seems to be what people flinch from.

I've been reading about the various amounts of powder needed in the pan. Some say just enough...I don't know how much is just enough without having something in the breech to light. I understand I don't need a full pan. But I don't want to put so little powder down the barrel that ignition is inconsistent or non-existant.

I agree most flinch from the flash. I am trying to play with other variables in my limited location (i.e. no lead and preferably not a huge boom).

 

[reddogge]

Just a thought, try some cast wax balls. They should fragment coming out of the muzzle but give a recoil. Cast them in your bullet mold.

 

[45man]

Just do not cover the flash hole with powder. Just makes a fuse.

 

[wiscoaster]

I'd second what @Phil Coffins recommends. Though I really think you're making too much of too little. If you really want to fire off a charge in your basement, 10 grains or so down the muzzle with a wad will give you a nice puff of smoke out the muzzle with very little noise. At least let you know the charge in the breech is igniting from the pan. But hey, let's find a range where you can really shoot!!

 

[russellshaffer]

That nice puff of smoke in your basement will make the whole house smell like sulfur. Are you married???

 

[deerstalkert]

if'n you shoot that smokepole in your basement be sure to video it so we can all laugh when you cant see or breathe anymore!

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

That nice puff of smoke in your basement will make the whole house smell like sulfur. Are you married???

I have a deodorant stick sulfur scented. my Wife likes it!!!

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

With a fast lock and pan charge only it will represent a full charge going off. Ignore the pan...

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

A charge big enough to fill the patent breach is going to be close to the charge in some cap and ball revolvers. Not going to be very quiet.

 

[gmo]

I said "at" the house not "in" the house. I have four acres but there are houses on each side. A few loud bangs now and then wouldn't be a problem, but lead balls in any direction could be considered reckless.

My real question is how many grains of powder will fill up that patent breech to the touch hole. I don't want to be short leaving the pan nothing to light. Unless the breech ends right at the touch hole? I am just going by the pictures I see of TC breech cut in half.

As far as ranges go, there is an unmanned range about an hour from me. I don't want to drive that far just to fiddle with flints and flash pans. I go there for serious load development only, and rarely at that these days. Last time, a couple guys had some small kids there. One guy aiming the rifle, his buddy on the spotting scope. A kid about 5 years old wandered in front of his shooting table. My screams got his attention and he raised his head. I pointed at the kid. He looked, yelled at the kid, and head back down on the rifle.

The time before that guys were shooting full-auto.

I'll putz around the house as much as I can to get tuned in.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

I said "at" the house not "in" the house. I have four acres but there are houses on each side. A few loud bangs now and then wouldn't be a problem, but lead balls in any direction could be considered reckless.

My real question is how many grains of powder will fill up that patent breech to the touch hole. I don't want to be short leaving the pan nothing to light. Unless the breech ends right at the touch hole? I am just going by the pictures I see of TC breech cut in half.

As far as ranges go, there is an unmanned range about an hour from me. I don't want to drive that far just to fiddle with flints and flash pans. I go there for serious load development only, and rarely at that these days. Last time, a couple guys had some small kids there. One guy aiming the rifle, his buddy on the spotting scope. A kid about 5 years old wandered in front of his shooting table. My screams got his attention and he raised his head. I pointed at the kid. He looked, yelled at the kid, and head back down on the rifle.

The time before that guys were shooting full-auto.

I'll putz around the house as much as I can to get tuned in

Buy one of those cheap endoscopes for your cell phone. Unless someone has a definitive answer only way to know is look and see for yourself.
I went years without shooting a traditional muzzleloader and have been fighting a flinch when target shooting I never had before. It's worse with flintlocks and nothing I've tried so far has cured it when the rifle is loaded and actually going to fire. Oddly enough when hunting I don't have that issue so it's all in my head.

You don't have to use black powder to check it. Corn meal, cream of wheat, nearly anything similar in a volumetric measure will work.

 

[russellshaffer]

A suggestion. A 7/16 dowell should fit down the bore but not go into the breech. Drop it in and mark it at the muzzle. Put a small charge down the barrel and check with the dowell. Keep increading the charge until the dowel doesn't go down to the mark. That will be the amount to just fill the breech. I would be curious to know the answer, so please post your finding.

 

[gmo]

So this is what 10 grains of Schuetzen 3f looks like in the breech of a .50 cal flintlock TC Hawken. (Can't help the pitting; it was there when I got the rifle.)

I did not continue to top off to see just how much the breech holds, but I did learn a few things.

1. 10 grains is enough to blow out a loosely load piece of roundball bread.

2. 10 grains is NOT enough to push out an over-bore piece of bread.

3. 30 grains is enough to expell bread AND loud enough to get my neighbors attention 100 yards away.

4. 30 is also enough to get my wife's attention in the house and come out to check on me. (To be fair, I had just been tossing some old Pyrodex P into the fire pit, so I suppose a sudden boom would be attention getting!)

5. After messing with the flint, I found my lock is better than I initially thought. When I got the rifle, I was not impressed with the shower of sparks it presented. It still doesn't shower sparks, but it fired faster than I could flinch. I wonder if flinch is recoil based? Having no thought of recoil with this light load, I could focus on the time between trigger pull and klatch-boom. I couldn't tell a difference between; more of a klaboom. (Or klapow with only 30 grains.)

6. I used a .30 cal brush to get into the breech while cleaning.

That is all I can think of for now, and since I type with one finger when using the phone I am going to end it here.

 

[andy52]

I use a paper spit ball to simulate the sound of a ball being fired, doesn't produce the same recoil but gives the same sound.

 

[morehops52]

What Phil said, pan only, no charge. You really don't want it in the house but it's your choice.

 

[stephenprops1]

I had a similar situation when I restored a 50 caliber percussion ML. I was in an area where I could make noise, to test the gun, but I could not shoot a ball. I loaded a reduced powder load and made a crude ball with aluminum foil. I shot the gun outside, aiming at a tree. I was able to retrieve the foil and use it several times. That helped me sort of "proof" my work until I could get to the real range and shoot regular loads and PRB.