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PRB accuracy

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Try the Maxi-Hunters. Hollow point to begin with.
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A friend who hog hunts with a M/L swears by the Maxi-balls for blowing through the piggy's shield/shoulder hide but uses roundball for deer.
 
I think TC's Maxi-Hunters are outstanding...I've taken a few deer in the past with the .45cal / 255grn version in TC Hawken 1:48" percussions barrels and they hit like a sledgehammer.

And even though I've switched to PBR's the past few years, and now Flintlocks, I couldn't help myself a few weeks ago and sighted in a spare .45cal TC Hawken Flint barrel with them...still extremely accurate...I had stumbled across a big supply of the 'unlubricated' ones on EBay at a great price, lubed a couple boxes of them with a TC Maxi-Luber, and had a good shoot...
 
It is quite possible that short conicals would remain stable after hitting game. In the .48 twist .45 or .50 cal, something in the 230 to 250 (.45) or 320 gr. approx. in .50's would work OK. The maxi's with the huge lube slots really lengthens the bullet and that's what requires faster twists. A 36" twist will stabilize the 370 maxi just fine. These particular bullets are the same length or longer than my 450 gr. slugs for the 50-70. In it's 42" twist, I have to shorten the slugs 1/8"(modified the mould) to maintain stability & with BP replacements like Mag 3, I'm getting 1,500fps with them. At that velocity they are very accurate and still penetrate in a straight line, but they are only .7" long. The same length requires a minimum (slowest)twist of 44" according to the formula for BP bullets.
Daryl
 
Daryl.....you are a man I'd love to share a campfire with....I'd like to think we'd both go home pleased with the encounter. Listen up fellers.....the man knows whereof he speaks.

Vic
 
Daryl: You make tons of sense. The statistics are misleading for those that don't understand what statistics are really all about. Numbers just give a "value" to something we can't see. Something to understand and relate to and make comparisons with. Numbers don't always convert to actual real life facts.
After all, scientifically speaking in areodynamic terms a bee can't fly. It's impossible. Yet the bee buzzes around all day just fine not knowing it can't fly.
It's nice to see figures, but they figures may not relate to real life situations very well.
The last time I went to the far north in Onterio for spring black bear I took my Remingto 700 BDL in .300 Win.Mag. and my "back up" rifle was a Malrin 1895 in the venerable 45-70.
The outfitter spotted my Marlin and told me to leave the .300 mag in camp and use the 45-70 as it was a much better "stopper" than any of the fast .30's.
He explained that he had seen to many bear shot multiple times with the fast magnums and the slow big bullets from the .35 Rem., and 45-70 and similar cartridges were much more effective.
now I had never shot a bear and this guy had seen hundreds taken and had the experience I lacked so I listened to him.
I took a 300 pound boar at 40 yards with one shot through the chest and the bear rolled over at impact, got up gave two jumps and piled up deader than virginity.
Of the other four in my party one took a bear at about the same distance with his .300 Win Mag, but had to shoot it 3 times before it piled up after running more than a hundred yards in the bush and we almost did't find it at that due to the lack of a good blood trail.
A fellow using a .308 hit his bear at least 3 times and lost it.
The other man that connected with a bear was also using a .300 Win Mag and we found his bear the next day several hundred yards from where it was hit.
I still own a 45-70, and I still listen to the voice of experience.
 
NoJacket If you like conicals and make one shot kills use them. I have shot a few deer with a 50 cal. PBR, had to track some but never lost one. Other than my inline I can't get any accuracy out of conicals,I have slow twist barrels.Rocky /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Daryl,

I hear ya with regard to those "sensitive" subjects. We have the same "sensitivities" over here in Ontario. Our deer camp is 15 miles north of a reservation and we've watched the deer numbers plummet in our area while the rest of the province is headed toward serious overpopulation. And our MNR caught a freezer truck headed toward Toronto with somewhere between 100 and 200 deer carcasses on board for sale on the black market. The natives in question still got off with the claim that it was all "sustenance hunting". Oh yes, I know about those "sensitive" subjects. :curse: Grrrrrr! :curse:

As for PRB on moose, I'm glad you've shared this info. I hadn't yet given any thought to using a muzzleloader on moose, but when the time comes I might think about it, given the data you've provided. Like you, I'm particularly sensitive to loss or waste of wildlife. One thing you don't mention is the range at which these moose are being shot. Can you provide some range guidelines based on your experience?
 
Sharps - I'd really like that myself. I reallyleiek sitting around with like-minded people.
:Maxiball- thanks - & you are absolutely right concerning the big bullets on deer and bear. Deer are well known for running long distances when shot with very fast bullets, especially heart shot. When a 405gr. from an old Springfield or hoped up load from a modern 45-70 drifts through the boiler room, they usally go straight down.
: Black Bear as also suseptable to hydrostatic or nerve shock, which is why they usually drop at about any shot, but will jump right back up and take off. They're also tough. The farthest I've had one go was a lung-shot big dry sow, hit broadside through the lungs. She dropped when the 340gr. FN cast bullet went through, got up, but only staggered 20' before dropping, kick once, bawled and that was it. All other's I've shot with my various medium to big bores has dropped and not moved. A buddy of mine uses nothing but his .300 Weatherby with 200gr. Noslers and head shoots his B. Bear at 40 yds. max. Not one has moved. yet, his friend uses a .300 Winch. like to lung shoot them, and usually finds them 50yds. from where they were hit.
; Yes - there's something wrong with ft. lbs. These are numbers that don't seem to add up to results shown on game.
: No-Jacket, - we have the same types of aboriginal problems here. Bloody makes one fry sometimes, but when the government crunch comes, we'll be buying shooting supplies from them in all likelyhood. There may be a silver lining in that continuous headache.
: I am all for slugs for shooting animals with small bores. In the proper twist, they give excellent results. If they didn't, our RB's wouldn't have been replaced by them. There are game facts, though, when using the truley big bores, a round ball is much more effective, IMMEDIATELY, within it's effective range, than is a smaller bore rifle with perhaps a deeper penetrating bullet, within the range large game is commonly shot at. There is "a be-numbing effect to the blow", to quote Forsythe.
: I've shot a bunch of moose, deer and bear- none yet have been further than 100yds. from where I pulled the trigger. The only long range shooting(besides competition) I do, is on Columbia Ground Squirrels & maybe the odd coyote/wolf.
: I'm much happier with a smokepole, or single-shot big bore in my hands, and considering I'd rather hunt than bushwack, even a .45 RB will take my moose, every year, at it's self-imposed max range of 50yds. The .69 RB allowed at least 150yds., but 90 to 95 yds. is the farthest it's been used at. When you can call one in to 20', why risk a 200 yd. shot over a swamp?
Daryl
 
Ahhh.....the glories of experience. I truly hope every person on this board lives long enough to have more "experience" than they can share. I used to envy the exuberance of youth but the older I get the more I value mine and the experience of others. I have said for years that all I have done with regard to my study of ballistics, riflery and handgunning and its terminal effect on game, merely proves everything Elmer Keith, Forsyth, Ross Seyfried and John "Pondoro" Taylor ever said. All of those gentlemen speak and spoke from the experience of countless heads of game and many years in the hunting fields.

Most of us are more than a little hard headed and until we see something with our own eyes we're more than a bit guilty of not believeing it. In the same vein, one bad expereince can foul an entire way of doing something, no matter that we may or may not have been the reason for that bad experience.

Don't discount the PRB. There is much to be said for mass and momentum that isn't reflected in ballistics calculations. Read Frank Mayers book on the buffalo runners....the average range he talks about was 200 yards and he condsidered that close. Take each incident as it comes and reap knowledge from that incident. After 30 or so head of big game make some distinctions and learn from them. No on should make a decision based on 2-4 encounters. Each of them will be different and no conclusion can be drawn. Rome wasn't built in a day......and the more we learn the more we learn that the "old timers" learned it a heck of a long time ago......there ain't a whole lot new under the sun.

Vic
 
Daryl - thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with respect to PRB and "really big" game. I was quite happy to read of your self-imposed range limit. Wish a LOT more hunters would get real and limit the shots they take. And as for your comment about our future source of shooting supplies, I truly hadn't though of it that way. But I don't suspect you're too far from dead centre on that one! Heck, the natives in Saskatchewan want to set up a for-profit MRI clinic. Bootlegging shooting supplies would be a nice little sideline for them, I'm sure!

Sharps - Your comments about sharing experiences ring true here. The only reason I come to places like this is to learn from the experiences of others. And this thread has provided plenty of opportunities for learning. Thanks for continuing to share your knowledge.
 
After reading my last post I realized I may have slighted some folks. My apologies to all. To Rocky, Maxiball, Roundball, Stumpkiller and all the others who have added their valuable input here, please accept my thanks for having shared your expertise.

BTW - I'm working up loads right now for my .50cal 1:48 Hawkens using a 300 grain conical made by Precision Bullets out of Manitoba. I chose this one because it's quite short and their Keith-nose hollow point has a deep hollow point which I suspect will shorten tracking distance by increasing the size of the wound channel. I can take two deer this fall, so will likely load the T/C Renegade with these conicals (if I can get them to shoot) and my Traditions Hawken with PRB and hopefully take a deer with each. Rumour is that part of our "archery only" season will be changed to "archery and muzzleloader". Yeehaaaw!
 
I take more of a "system" approach to things...since I decided to commit to the TC product line, I also use most of their accessories on the assumption that their engineering/testing would result in the best match up.

For example, I noticed your reference to a third party brand of conical "if I can get them to shoot"...to me, that just potentially introduces unecessary complications, and possibly wasted money if they don't work out right.

Life is complicated enough as it is...so I just use TC Maxi-Hunters in TC barrels and they're tack drivers, put down deer like a sledgehammer, and life is good.
 
Hey RB - I hear what you're saying with respect to the "system" approach. The first conicals I tried in this .50 T/C Renegade of mine were Maxi-Hunters which have achieved only one decent group. All the others were on the order of 6-8" at 50 yards. Even the "decent" group was about 3", and that was achieved with 60 grains of FFg BP, definitely not as hot a load as I'd like to carry afield for hunting. I've still got some of these bullets left and will do some more experimentation with them as I implement some of the tips and techniques I've learned from you and others here on this board.

As for the "third party" conicals, I'm going to play with them simply because they represent a very short-for-weight projectile which several folks on this board have suggested to be likely to work in the 1:48 twist of my rifle. The 300 grain Keith-nose hollow point conical has a half inch of bearing surface against the rifling, which is substantially less than my Maxi-Hunters. As mentioned earlier, this is an experiment. I really like this particular rifle and want to find something it likes to shoot. Maybe a different weight of Maxi-Hunter will do the trick.
 
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