PRB or lead conical?

[Oregononeshot]

I told you guys I had lots of questions. All the help I got from my .50 vs .54 question made me think of another. If you had to hunt with only one bullet for the rest of your life and had to pick between PRB or lead conical, which would you choose? I'm asking because I've gotten a couple suggestions to go with a gun made for strictly PRB, which would be nice because I wouldn't have multiple conical bullets to try to experiment with. But as also stated conicals have more energy when they hit because they are heavier. As I said earlier I want the most accurate load, my goal is under 5 inch group at 100 yards. I'm hoping to get accurate enough to put my max range for elk next season at 125 yards. The couple guns I've seen with 1/66 PRB twist don't fit what I'm looking for (weight being the biggest issue). I know I could get a different barrel, but I'm not made out of money either. So, which would you choose?

 

[Kansas Jake]

If I lived in an area where I could regularly hunt elk, moose, and other large game and I only had a 50 caliber, I might go with a conical. For me, an elk or larger game animal would probably be a once or twice proposition. So, with a 50 caliber or a 54, I'd stick with a patched round ball. I built a TC Hawken kit 40 years ago and bought molds for both round ball and the TC maxiball. I molded up a bunch of both. I can't remember if I ever tried the maxi. I still have a box of about 25 from that first small group I cast. I've always used round ball. They kill deer just fine.

If I had a 54 or larger caliber, I would stick with round ball. BTW, the twist of 1 in 48 in the TC seems to work fine for round ball.

 

[Eterry]

Conicals don't carry more energy than a prb JUST because of weight... it's because of aerodynamics. The prb, which HAS worked since time, just isn't aerodynamic compared to a conical. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

The conical isn't as aerodynamic as a boat tail spitzer, but it has the prb beat energy and trajectory hands down, in a side by side comparison.

If you study the ballistic tables you'll see out to 50-75 yards things are pretty much even. But past that the prb starts to shed energy, and fall, rather quickly. The conical loses energy and falls also, but not nearly as fast.

Can a prb cleanly take an elk... sure thing. But what about the marginal shot you may have to take the last day of the hunt... I don't mean a Texas heart shot, but what about a quartering on shoulder shot...wouldn't you want the extra energy and range the conical provides?

This is a traditional site, and lots here don't consider the conical traditional, even though Sam Colt's guns came with a conical mold. BTW, Dillin's book shows a gunsmith's cherries for molds from an early 19th century shop. Of 16 cherries, 10 were NOT round..IIRC.

Me, I'm presently sitting in a deer blind, waiting for the wind to die down. Beside me is a 58 cal loaded with a 500gr mini ball. It shoots under 2 inches at 50 yards, is dead on at 75, i hope the hogs tearing up the wheat show up.

Keep shooting.

 

[rodwha]

Wind drift also effects a ball much more so. Not too big of an ordeal up close but a bit further out it really pushes a ball.

The 320 grn Lee REAL has a BC of .189 compared to .069 for a .490" ball. In a 10 mph crosswind there's a big difference out at 100 yds or the max 125 yds you stated. Quite frankly 75 yds is about as far as I'd shoot with a ball in that situation. Judging distance for me is much easier than wind speed.

I bought a .50 cal rifle as my first figuring a PRB will handle everything I'd likey come across here in Texas and were I to get an opportunity to hunt something large like an elk a conical would do nicely.

I chose the .50 cal partly because of the plethora of accessories and whatnot for that caliber. But knowing what I know now I'd have chosen a .54 cal instead, especially as I cast my projectiles. One day I'll go ahead and purchase a barrel to swap out meant mostly for PRB.

 

[rdstrain49]

One projectile for the rest of my life, no question, 54 cal. ball. I have two tubs full of mini and maxi molds that either didn't shoot well or were marginal. I shoot and hunt with patch and ball.

 

[Tom Compton]

.54 with a PRB. Wouldn’t go after big bear on purpose w one but anything else in NA - you betcha.
TC

 

[Idaho Ron]

One bullet for a 50 cal for the rest of my life? Easy the same bullet I have used for the last 10 years. A paper patched Lee 500 S&W bullet for both of my renegades. But remember my barrels are 1-28 twist.

 

[Oregononeshot]

Sorry guys I should of mentioned I'm planning on getting a .54, so the projectile would be a .54

 

[BigBoreBLR]

54 cal, PRB. I hunt in NY and PA. I hunt with 54 PRB, I target shoot with both 54 and 45. Ideal hunting spots stand hunting with closer ranges a 45 does come with me. Hunting in new areas, on foot, windy, or distances greater than 50 yards, I use 54 exclusively. IF I go to a woodwalk shoot on a windy day, the 45 stays at home....

Why? Because it can do the job just fine. Also, a 54 slug will pack a wallop. Especially if your looking for a lightweight gun that will kick that much more. Also, the extra sight radius helps too.

I have carried my 54 cal lyman GPR many miles in the woods. I doesn't feel heavy. It weighs as much as a remington 700 with good rings and a scope.

It was killing me 2 years ago. A beautiful 10 pointer in a PA state forest. MY range finder said 130 yards. I stopped myself because I only practiced at 100. So a few weeks later, I put up a 6 inch gong at 130 yards. I was sitting at the base of a tree using my knee as a rest. Just like I saw that deer that day. shot 1, ring. shot 2 ring, shot 3 ring....... Got more disappointed with each shot......

Since elk is bigger and my gun has a peep sight. I'd practice a good bit, but 150 yard I think is feasible on a calm day with a square broadside shot.

Also, the damage the 54 cal ball does to 1lb propane cylinders and the exit wounds on deer would make me quite confident with an elk at the front sight.

Wht I would likely do if I elk hunted with a 54. I would make my own balls and maybe use a touch harder than pure soft lead. Like lyman alloy perhaps. As long as they made consistent size and weight balls of course. A bit more beefiness in case you hit a front leg.

 

[necchi]

Tough call man with the way you've layed out your desires.
The 54 is a good call.
I'm a PRB fan but I've never had to kill anything bigger then Whitetail or Black bear and haven't had to go over 100yrds to do it.
You mention weight of the rifle being an issue. If you think a fast twist short brl carbine model will stabilize a conical out too 100 or more,,, well it's gonna take an awful lot of work.
(read; Good luck with that)
Idaho Ron has and continues to do some amazing long range work with traditional guns,, but he also has spent money on custom barrels, time for barrel and sight fitting, lots of casting equipment and years of experience to cast his own projectiles too very tight tolerance and 100's of hours developing load combinations.
He's got it down and he has made his work available for all to see.

So what your doing is good for right now, you have your goals set on next season,, your asking the right questions,
Best suggestions? keep reading here,, dig through the archive(back pages) and keep reading,, when you see the same kind of questions answered the same way year after year,, they tend to carty more weight. :wink:

 

[Wes/Tex]

A very series of ballistic tests run in 1999 through 2005 were run a rerun because the results went against common perception. PRB constantly carried 16% more transferable energy to the target than any conical except modern expanding metal and plastic ones. The only advantage a conical has is deeper penetration, period....that and heavier recoil.

 

[Scipio]

RJ:

The conditions you have stated will lead you to conicals. Personally, I believe it is harder to find a conical with a shape that leads towards consistently good performance and it is also harder to cast them well so expect a bunch of experimenting.

I would really find out what others shooting the rifle you want to buy are using for conicals before spending a bunch of money on molds.

That said though, there is a reason why round ball was replaced by conicals. Better exterior and terminal ballistics which leads to a higher probability of hit and kill.

Scipio

 

[coloradoclyde]

If you had to hunt with only one bullet for the rest of your life and had to pick between PRB or lead conical, which would you choose?

That's easy!....A patched round ball.
You see, it all boils down to how you want to shoot or hunt. Everything else is moot. There is no better or best....It is all personal preference.
I am willing to accept the limitations and challenges that come with muzzleloading... These challenges allow me to become more proficient in other areas which makes me a better hunter and shooter.

 

[52Bore]

Your twist rate will dictate a lot on projectile choice.
I'm a conical guy and I'd make a 54 similar to a Mini (cavity base) if I had the twist in my barrel.
What is your twist ?

 

[Oregononeshot]

I don't have one yet I'm in the process of figuring out which one I'm going to get. I know I'm going to get a .54, right now it's between the lyman trade and the lyman GPR. I'm leaning towards the GPR. I know I'll be limited to PRB with the 1/66 twist , but all I've seen and read is they are extremely accurate. I think I'll pick the GPR that will shoot one bullet extremely accurately, versus the trade that shoots both styles, 1/48 twist, but possibly not as accurately. Going tomorrow to hold a few I'll see how they feel

 

[52Bore]

Just an FYI
54 cal (230gr) PRB with 120gr Goex will have a MV about 1700fps and 1500 ft-lbs energy. At 100yds it's 1000fps/550 ft-lbs respectively.
A 450gr with 90gr will have a MV 1300fps/1700 ft-lbs; at 100yds it's 1100fps/1200 ft-lbs energy.
If you have a good barrel and willing to try some difference Black Powders, you'll be able to get either to shoot very well..

 

[Stringbean]

I have a few rifles all of which i shoot round ball. I do have a Lyman GPR in .54. A few years ago i killed a doe with it out in our hayfield that was very near 100 yards quartering to me. I hit her right behind the shoulder and the ball stopped as a lump under the skin on the rear ham.I have even shot deer with a .395 patched round ball with fair results. I am a big fan of a round ball and a slow twist barrel. I see no need for a conical in my excursions.
String

 

[Stumpkiller]

If you had to hunt with only one bullet for the rest of your life and had to pick between
PRB or lead conical, which would you choose?

I choose round ball - but I don't live or hunt where you do. And I hunt whitetail deer that like tight cover.

Personally, I am after the challenge and rewards of hunting with a traditional muzzleloader and a round ball. Local whitetail and terrain are suited to it. Most of my shots have been under 50 yards. I prefer a .54 even though I have not had problems with my .50 . . . it just hits harder and meat loss is similar with either. I have one "good" custom rifle and it is in .54 with a 1:70" twist for round balls (and flintlock - but that's another story).

If you have the skills and terrain to close to 100 yards or less a round ball in a traditional iron sights will do it.

 

[hanshi]

I agree. I've made shots with prb at distances where a conical would be difficult to place with any precision. Penetration? 90% of all my shots on deer with prb - regardless of caliber - were through and through. That even includes quartering shots. Conicals are okay if they give one the success they are seeking. It still doesn't do much of anything in most game that a prb can't do. Go for accuracy with whatever projectile you prefer.

 

[Rifleman1776]

One projectile for the rest of my life, no question, 54 cal. ball. I have two tubs full of mini and maxi molds that either didn't shoot well or were marginal. I shoot and hunt with patch and ball.

:applause: :applause: :applause: