PRBs

[Croppy Boy]

Hello all :thumbsup:

This is my first post to this forum and I may start with a question.

I am new to muzzleloading and recently bought a Pedersoli Mortimer 12 bore flintlock shotgun. I've been trying patched round balls with fairly good success. I first tried .715 balls, these would not take a patch, even a 0.005 patch. The ball would slither down the barrel with the air hissing around it. They shot quite well but I thought it might lead to lead fouling and you would be better with a patch to tighten it up. I then tried .690 balls with 0.018 lubed pillow ticking patches, these were hard to put down the barrel and after firing several I couldn't find one patch. I am now using the .690 balls with 0.010 patches with a felt wad over the powder. These seem to be shooting quite well.

I haven't changed the powder charge, using 80 grains of FFg all the time.

What size ball and patch combination would any of you recommend and also am I using too much or too little powder?

Incidently, the barrel diameter is 0.721" at the muzzle and I presume the same all the way down.

 

[Slamfire]

Some folks use a tight fittin' ball with a card over the top and are satisfied, usin' a wad between powder and ball helps accuracy in most cases. :winking:

 

[rice1817]

Hello, Croppy Boy of Wexford, Ireland! I live near Wexford, Pennsylvania, no doubt named for the Auld Sod Wexford!

Smoothbores are a little different from rifles in that there are no grooves for the patch to compress into. The .715 ball and the .018 patch were just a little to much to force down that bore. What you are shooting now, .690 ball and .010 patch (times 2 since there is patch on each side of the ball) equals .710. Pretty close to the .721 bore size cited. Taking that one step further, .690 ball plus a .015 patch (x2) equals .720, which is just about an exact fit, provided your balls are a true .690.

 

[No Deer]

I also have a Pedersoli Mortimer 12 ga. flintlock shotgun. In mine I shoot a .69 ball with pillow ticking patch. I don't know the thickness of the ticking, I have never measured it, but it loads easily enough, I do use a short starter though, and can shoot all day without swabbing. Have not shot it a lot for accuracy, but it has taken a few deer.

 

[BRUN]

Some folks use a tight fittin' ball with a card over the top and are satisfied, usin' a wad between powder and ball helps accuracy in most cases. :winking:

Why the card over the ball?I never shot a smooth bore before and am just curious.

 

[Rebel]

It protects the patch from burning and provides a better gas seal.

 

[boar]

Rebel I don't think read your post right? Maybe I haven't? But I think the cardboard wad is to hold the bare ball from drifting in barrel. Dilly

 

[Rebel]

Nope, yer right, i misread his post. I thought he asked why the wad over the powder and under the ball. Well my answer will be there when that question comes up again. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

The 80 grain charge is just short of 3 drams of powder( 27.5 grains to a dram) The ball weighs 1 1/8 oz. at .729 diameter. Since you are using slightly smaller balls, with the patch ( roughly a 14 gauge ball), the ball weighs in at 500 grains, approx. or a little more than one ounce. You might get better accuracy if you back that powder charge down to 70 grains, or even 65 grains. Don't try to send those large balls down range at any high speed. They are so heavy that its next to impossible to get them going above the speed of sound, without beating yourself to death with the recoil. These heavy balls penetrate completely through light skinned animals, and often through heavy boned, and thick skinned animals, when shot at 50 yds, or under. Beside the large diameter, and weight, they also mushroom on impact, creating a HUGE primary wound channel. If you keep your loads so that the ball is traveling under the speed of sound( nominally 1100 fps.) the ball does not have to come back down through that transonic zone and be buffetted by the air turbulance, which pushed the ball one way or another, and open up groups. I use a light 2 3/4 dram charge that sends the load out at about 1030 fps. Round balls group well with this load, the recoil is manageable, and I have never ever worried that the ball will kill a deer at distances well past 100 yds. I do however restrict my shots to 50 yds. When you hunt river bottoms, and ravines, that is about as far as you will ever see a deer, much less find a clear lane to take a shot at one.

Use an overpowder wad to give uniformity to your loads. You will need to use less powder to achieve the same velocities with a PRB in your 12 ga. using an overpowder wad, than if you shoot the PRB without the wad.

Finally, you asked swhy some people put an over shot card or wafer on top of their round ball.

Well, in double barreled shotguns, when one barrel is fired, often the load in the second barrel will shift, unless its firmly held in place with a card on top of the shot charge, or round ball. So, the card or wafer, is used to provide an extra margin of safety. If you are shooting a single barrel gun, a shifting load will never be a problem for you in that gun, so there is no need to use an over shot card or wafer on top of your Round Ball load. Easy.

 

[Croppy Boy]

Thanks for your advice. I'll try the reduced charge next time I'm out. :thumbsup:

I'm new to this muzzleloading and no one else around here does it so I'm on my own. No doubt I'll have many more questions. :hmm:

Is it necessary to have the patched ball very tight in the barrel as it would be with a 0.015 patch. To load it I need to start it with a ball starter and tap and push it down the barrel? Would this lead to heavy wear to the barrel? As I said before, a 0.715 ball just fits the bore but obviously not as tight as a patched ball. Would this be a less accurate load?

Thank you all for your help. :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Every barrel is different, so there is no hard and fast rule. YOu can expect the pure lead round ball to expand on firing( its called " obturation ") which forces the cloth patch around the ball sideways to seal the bore. However, with large caliber gun where you are using heavy charges of powder, I would advise using an overpowder card( 1/8" thick card wad- sold in boxes of 1000. Measure the bore with a caliper so you can order the right size.) It sounds like your gun will use the 12 gauge card wad okay, but If the bore is much smaller than 729, you might have to order a 13 ga. wad. No sense fighting to push a wad down the barrel! "The wad will seal the flame and gases from the PRB and protect your patch from being burned in the barrel. That allows you to use a slightly thinner patch so that you can load that PRB down the barrel easier. You can buy the wads from Track of the Wolf, and any other supplier, that may be located nearer to you so you cut down on the shipping charges. If you don't want to use wads, you can carry a separate flask or horn with cream of wheat, corn meal, or any other fillers to seal the gases behind that PRB. Because you can buy these products in your grocery store, and eat them, the only real investment is acquiring a horn or flask to carry them in. I have a 20 grain( volume) tube screwed into my flask, and it throws enough cream of wheat to use as a filler in my .50 cal. rifle. In a 12 ga. I want to throw about 50 grains to accomplish the same task, and I have a separate tube in that volume to use when I am shooting my shotgun. Other fillers will also work, but would not be as quick for loading. Wasps nest, leaves, a synthetic product called " PufLon" , and others. I try to use biodegradable stuff in my gun, so I avoid the synthetic stuff.

 

[arquebus]

Here's another option: Some friends of mine who shoot smoothbore Muskets use a bare ball (no patch) but first run it between a couple of coarse files which puts dimples on the ball's surface somewhat resembling a golf ball(!). This does a couple of things a) It slightly increases the diameter of the ball making it a tighter fit & b) The dimples will hold some lube. They use these balls with a card overpowder wad & a felt wad under the ball, don't think they use anything over the ball. They get very good accuracy (2-3") at 50m. They use this system mainly in their .69 & .75 military-type muskets, but also in their .50 caliber matchlocks.

 

[Slamfire]

Some folks use a tight fittin' ball with a card over the top and are satisfied, usin' a wad between powder and ball helps accuracy in most cases. :winking:

Why the card over the ball?I never shot a smooth bore before and am just curious.

I neglected to mention no patch was used, and the wad over the ball is to keep the ball in place, it's a bad thing if it moves away from the powder charge. :v

 

[Rusty Old Gunns]

Some folks use a tight fittin' ball with a card over the top and are satisfied, usin' a wad between powder and ball helps accuracy in most cases. :winking:

Why the card over the ball?I never shot a smooth bore before and am just curious.

I neglected to mention no patch was used, and the wad over the ball is to keep the ball in place, it's a bad thing if it moves away from the powder charge. :v

Why a card ober the ball? Put a ball down the barrel, then tilt the muzzle down ... Watch your feet now!

That's why you put a card over the ball.

Now if you're taking about a patched ball, It would depend if you feel the PTB is tight enough not to spill out or nudge away from the powder charge with a small impact like tapping a fence post with the gun or the like.

Now I was being figurative before. Don't go shooten off your feet, OK?

 

[Croppy Boy]

Thanks for all the advice lads. It's given me plenty to work on. :hatsoff: