Priming Flask

[rodwha]

I’ve read somewhere that someone claimed a priming powder flask was not historical, that they used the powder from their powder horn. I’ve Googled this but see nothing historical (searches are typically like the old Bing commercials where you get a thousand hits on everything but what you are searching for).

 

[Artificer]

It all depends on what kind of flask and what time period you are doing, as to whether or not it was done in the period you are doing.

For example a repro flask from the style made in the 19th century, would not be correct historically for an 18th century gun.

A flask that was common in the 17th century in Europe would usually not be common (or even unknown) in many places in the Colonies in the 18th century.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Also, a VERY COMMON mistake many of us made in the 1970's was to carry a large powder horn AND a small (often matching) "priming horn" on our Shot/Hunting Bags. Small horn carried 4FFFFg Priming Powder and the larger horn carried 1F to 3F powder. Not sure who came up with the idea for two horns, but it was a pretty common mistake around the Bi-Centennial. I don't know of any documented evidence of people using a "set of horns" in either the 18th or 19th centuries.

Gus

 

[rodwha]

So carrying a horn for the main powder and carrying an additional smaller horn/flask with 4F for the pan is historical (pre 20th Centruy)?

 

[Artificer]

So carrying a horn for the main powder and carrying an additional smaller horn/flask with 4F for the pan is historical (pre 20th Centruy)?

Maybe, but it depends on where and when and even the financial status of the person who did it.

What persona, place and what time period are you trying to recreate?

Gus

 

[rodwha]

None. Just curious about what I had read. On one hand it seemed ridiculous, but on another I can’t say I’ve seen one, which doesn’t mean much. And then we also see how paper cartridges were torn at the base with a bit of powder dribbled into the pan before ramming the remaining portion down the barrel. Hardly 4F used there. So I began to wonder...

 

[rodwha]

I also wondered about what we know of 4F being known today as only for pan priming, yet the Hazard’s paper cartridges for the cap n ball pistols used Hazard’s Pistol Powder, which was 4F and similar to Swiss/Olde E.

 

[Elnathan]

No evidence for separate priming powder in America 1700-1850 that I am aware of.

Some priming flasks among 17th century European military accouterments, I think, but I don't recall details.

 

[Biz]

Check this thread from 2013.
Biz
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/priming-item.83358/

 

[Feltwad]

Most of the old Brown Bess muskets had a large touch hole that they loaded with the Frizzen [ Steel] has it was then called closed which filled the pan making it ready to fire
Feltwad

 

[Grimord]

I seem to recall that an inventory of the rendezvous supplies brought out by Ashley listed "rifle powder" and "pan Powder". I believe this was in the journals of Charles Larpenter a clerk for Ashley/Sublette

 

[Rifleman1776]

Also, a VERY COMMON mistake many of us made in the 1970's was to carry a large powder horn AND a small (often matching) "priming horn" on our Shot/Hunting Bags. Small horn carried 4FFFFg Priming Powder and the larger horn carried 1F to 3F powder. Not sure who came up with the idea for two horns, but it was a pretty common mistake around the Bi-Centennial. I don't know of any documented evidence of people using a "set of horns" in either the 18th or 19th centuries.

Gus

Mistake? Who sez it's a mistake? Actually, most ml'ers are not necessarily trying to perzactly emulate any particular era or persona from history. Most only want to shoot the old style ml guns and dress up sorta olde timey AND have fun. I have always (in my flintlock life) used separate containers for charge and priming. I do it because I prefer 4Fg for priming. And, yes, I have read about difference in lock time, etc. I believe it is faster and, more importantly, gives more reliable ignition. Plus my horns are a beautiful set carved by George VanDriesche (RIP) given to me by my wife. You come and tell her this is a mistake. I dare ye. And, before I forget, this is a "do yer own thang" game.

 

[Artificer]

When I wrote it was a mistake, I meant from a point of historical accuracy. There may be a tiny number of original pouches with TWO matching horns and both slung on the pouch as was commonly done in the 1970's (I have personally never seen or heard of any, but it is possible), but the overwhelming majority of original pouches only have one horn slung from the pouch, if they have a horn slung from the pouch at all. (Though a small horn with priming powder may have been kept inside the pouch.)

I am not suggesting folks can not sling two powder horns from the outside of their Shot Pouch if they wish, only that there is little or no historic precedence for it.

Gus

 

[Rifleman1776]

When I wrote it was a mistake, I meant from a point of historical accuracy.

I knew that. But, sometimes it is hard to not zing ye when you give me such a perfect straight line.

 

[Artificer]

OK, zinging from good humour is humbly accepted.

Gus

 

[Juice Jaws]

Also, a VERY COMMON mistake many of us made in the 1970's was to carry a large powder horn AND a small (often matching) "priming horn" on our Shot/Hunting Bags. Small horn carried 4FFFFg Priming Powder and the larger horn carried 1F to 3F powder. Not sure who came up with the idea for two horns, but it was a pretty common mistake around the Bi-Centennial. I don't know of any documented evidence of people using a "set of horns" in either the 18th or 19th centuries.

Gus

And don't forget the 15 inch bowie knife we all had to have

 

[Artificer]

And don't forget the 15 inch bowie knife we all had to have

ROTFLMAO!!! Yeah, in my case is was a huge Rifleman's Knife that qualified as a Short Sword.

Gus

 

[Ketchakah]

Most of the old Brown Bess muskets had a large touch hole that they loaded with the Frizzen [ Steel] has it was then called closed which filled the pan making it ready to fire
Feltwad

Some folks have said that touchholes can get larger with use. I have not seen this yet, but barrel materials are probably different then they were.
I have heard said, the Term " lock and load " refers to the practice of opening a paper cartridge and priming first, then dumping the rest down the bore.
For reenactments, I do have the touchhole opened a bit, and it does do what you stated. I pour the charge with a closed pan and give it a smack. works about 95% of the time.

 

[rdlowe]

Some folks have said that touchholes can get larger with use. I have not seen this yet, but barrel materials are probably different then they were.

My 1779 EIC Bess has a vent liner that was installed by the guy who sold me the gun. He told me the touchhole was too worn for use when he got it. The rest of the metal is fine considering the age. It's just a shooter now but I paid a "just a shooter" price for it.

Just an anecdote so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Huntschool]

One might consider that "priming" horns are not large and can be conveniently carried inside ones bag even more so if they are flat. Doesn't take a lot of 4ffffg to get a good charge in the pan of a good flint lock rifle..... not some military musket.....

Just sayin