Priming the pan first

[Enfield58]

I thought that he asked a question about priming the pan, not a civil war musket that takes a musket cap that is always put on last before firing. how did your friend get a blast to the face loading a cap lock musket? if indeed it some how went off it should have only burnt his hand.

I only told the story to point out what a muzzle blast can do to a person.

A muzzle blast from a civil war musket and a revolutionary war musket will have the same effect.

That is one hazard a person exposes themselves to when priming the pan first.

It could be even more disastrous because of a ramrod and/or projectile in the bore if the powder is ever ignited.

Also please read my post again for a full understanding of what I was attempting to convey.

 

[sawyer04]

anyone who primes before loading is a far better man than I.

 

[user 36911]

Damn internet people like to argue. I'll see about making a hammer stall. Thanks for your input (only if you actually input something and didn't start arguments about stupid ****... you know who you are).

Yup, and we also know who you are now. If you post something unsafe. Expect to be called out on it. Arguing has nothing to do with it.

 

[Gavinm28]

Yup, and we also know who you are now. If you post something unsafe. Expect to be called out on it. Arguing has nothing to do with it.

My guy you started debating about Napoleonic era military tactics and the intellectual capacity of people in the 18th century. What I was doing was hardly unsafe, and I thank the people who explained to me what could go wrong and some alternatives. You did none of this. You said "People were stupid back then" and started spewing bs about linebattles.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I'll see about making a hammer stall.

I think that's a good idea. You can make one out of scrap leather for almost nothing. I'll bet my buddy Two Feathers or maybe Cutfingers (both of whom do leatherwork and advertise on this forum) could fix you up with one in a trice if you don't do leatherwork. A lot of events require that you have one, so its always a good plan to keep a hammerstall with your firelock. The type with the thong on the top may be more practical than one with the thong on the side if you have a flashguard on your lock, which is also required at some events.

You mentioned having a Pedersoli musket. I have a Pedersoli Charleville. Mine had some ignition problems when new, with poor sparking and bashing flints, and I found in probing the touch hole that there was a burr on the inside. I cleaned up the touch hole with an appropriate size drill bit, and sent the lock to Brad Emig of Cabin Creek Muzzleloading for tuning up. He made some adjustments and balanced the springs, and I think he may have rehardened the frizzen. It works like a champ now.

Good luck with your musket, Gavinm28. Have fun with it, and be safe.

Notchy Bob

 

[user 36911]

I think that's a good idea. You can make one out of scrap leather for almost nothing. I'll bet my buddy Two Feathers or maybe Cutfingers (both of whom do leatherwork and advertise on this forum) could fix you up with one in a trice if you don't do leatherwork. A lot of events require that you have one, so its always a good plan to keep a hammerstall with your firelock. The type with the thong on the top may be more practical than one with the thong on the side if you have a flashguard on your lock, which is also required at some events.

You mentioned having a Pedersoli musket. I have a Pedersoli Charleville. Mine had some ignition problems when new, with poor sparking and bashing flints, and I found in probing the touch hole that there was a burr on the inside. I cleaned up the touch hole with an appropriate size drill bit, and sent the lock to Brad Emig of Cabin Creek Muzzleloading for tuning up. He made some adjustments and balanced the springs, and I think he may have rehardened the frizzen. It works like a champ now.

Good luck with your musket, Gavinm28. Have fun with it, and be safe.

Notchy Bob

We have something in common. Two Feathers is a bud of mine too. Good guy. I bought a patch knife from him and he included a frizzen cover and a touch-hole pick. Not many will do that and it shows what a good guy he is.

My best friend a full blooded old school Lakota. We hunt elk together. I've learned a lot about their ways. I admire them.

 

[Gavinm28]

I think that's a good idea. You can make one out of scrap leather for almost nothing. I'll bet my buddy Two Feathers or maybe Cutfingers (both of whom do leatherwork and advertise on this forum) could fix you up with one in a trice if you don't do leatherwork. A lot of events require that you have one, so its always a good plan to keep a hammerstall with your firelock. The type with the thong on the top may be more practical than one with the thong on the side if you have a flashguard on your lock, which is also required at some events.

You mentioned having a Pedersoli musket. I have a Pedersoli Charleville. Mine had some ignition problems when new, with poor sparking and bashing flints, and I found in probing the touch hole that there was a burr on the inside. I cleaned up the touch hole with an appropriate size drill bit, and sent the lock to Brad Emig of Cabin Creek Muzzleloading for tuning up. He made some adjustments and balanced the springs, and I think he may have rehardened the frizzen. It works like a champ now.

Good luck with your musket, Gavinm28. Have fun with it, and be safe.

Notchy Bob

Thanks for the info. I found a place that sells Hammerstalls for pretty cheap (veteran arms) and I think I'll roll with that as I have shooting plans this weekend and I'm trying to get it as soon as possible. Yeah, my musket is the model 1766 Charleville. I haven't had problems so far, one or two flashes in the pan but that's just because I've been experimenting with the minimum amount of powder I can use for priming. I'll keep them in mind in case I have any issues

 

[user 34300]

Do not load at half **** with the frizzen closed. Prime is not needed to make a flintlock fire. Load with the **** down and the frizzen open. And yes, loading a primed gun is asking to have your fingers shot off.

 

[Bob McBride]

I have several hammer stalls and cow's knees for hunting in soft weather. I would be comfortable priming from the cartridge with a stall on the hammer if I was determined to do it that way as a regular part of my routine. A great bit of info passed along is that some ranges and groups don't allow it so I'd find a small priming horn for those occasions. Sometimes a thread, though trying, can be super educational. Thanks for the chat.

 

[Gavinm28]

I have several hammer stalls and cow's knees for hunting in soft weather. I would be comfortable priming from the cartridge with a stall on the hammer if I was determined to do it that way as a regular part of my routine. A great bit of info passed along is that some ranges and groups don't allow it so I'd find a small priming horn for those occasions. Sometimes a thread, though trying, can be super educational. Thanks for the chat.

Yeah I'm glad this thread has gotten so many comments, a lot of info that's good for new shooters. I like following military protocol, so a hammerstall is a great thing to have for safety purposes. I don't have to worry about range rules, I live in CA and the range masters haven't even seen a muzzleloader before. That is, if I go to a range instead of driving to AZ to shoot somewhere privately.

 

[Jay Templin]

I have fired tens of thousands of rounds, maybe 100,000+, from cartridges- live and blank- over the last 32 years in museums, reenactments, competitions, and afield. Almost every one was primed first. Still have all my parts where they started. If you're doing it right, only the edge of your hand ever crosses in front of the muzzle.
When I'm loading *shot* into my Besses, I like a tight wad, so I don't prime first then.
Ultimately, you decide where your comfort lies. Is priming first safe? Yes. Is not priming first safer? Probably.

 

[tenngun]

I got my first ml in 1975, the last time I hunted with a modern gun was that fall before. I shoot modren enough to keep my skills up for self defense, by ml has been my fun since my first.
That’s forty five years now.... a life time.
Never once in all that time have I had a cook off.
So loading directly from a horn is safe right?
I’ve never been in any accident but minor fender bender, trading paint as race car drivers say, so I don’t need that seat belt thingy right?
Never been so hurt in the tall timber I’ve need help getting out. I don’t need to tell my wife where I’m going and when she can expect me home right?

 

[SPQR70AD]

Sorry, but they were stupid. Standing face to face and shooting at each other is a brainless way to fight. A lot of death for a dumb way to fight. Adding an unsafe way to load doesn't help.

Who would copy from that?

Stupid? one of those men had more iron in him then 100 blowhards we have now. guys like them fought the British French Spanish Indians Canadians and each other. they fought for and established this country with their blood in the ground.

 

[Gavinm28]

18th century Americans vs 21st century Americans

 

[SPQR70AD]

when I shoot percussion rifles using a ball and patch. If I forget to take off the spent cap with the hammer down the ball will hardly go down cause the air being displaced cant get out until I cocked the hammer and took the cap off. So I was thinking if with a flintlock while ramming a tight fitting patch and ball would the air come out the flash hole and maybe blow off the priming powder?

 

[SPQR70AD]

View attachment 36966
18th century Americans vs 21st century Americans

now that is what I am talking about. good post

 

[Gavinm28]

when I shoot percussion rifles using a ball and patch. If I forget to take off the spent cap with the hammer down the ball will hardly go down cause the air being displaced cant get out until I cocked the hammer and took the cap off. So I was thinking if with a flintlock while ramming a tight fitting patch and ball would the air come out the flash hole and maybe blow off the priming powder?

Not really, with paper catridges it's not a super tight fit. Using patches, I'd definitely prime last. And otherwise, the frizzen doubles as a lid to cover the powder and prevent it from being blown away. And ideally, the powder doesn't cover the touch hole.

 

[Bob McBride]

Stupid? one of those men had more iron in him then 100 blowhards we have now. guys like them fought the British French Spanish Indians Canadians and each other. they fought for and established this country with their blood in the ground. Today we piss on them while giving the country away

I won’t say ‘amen’ because you used a bit of color and I have a southern mountain boy’s sense of juju, so I’ll be HC and say ‘hear hear’.

 

[tenngun]

They were so silly standing in line. Lots better to fight on the move, duck and cover.... except with very few exceptions, Americans couldn’t win or even come on par with the Brits in the field until it mastered their means of fighting.

 

[tenngun]

when I shoot percussion rifles using a ball and patch. If I forget to take off the spent cap with the hammer down the ball will hardly go down cause the air being displaced cant get out until I cocked the hammer and took the cap off. So I was thinking if with a flintlock while ramming a tight fitting patch and ball would the air come out the flash hole and maybe blow off the priming powder?

Not with a good fitting frizzen. It’s not air tight though there is no space even the small powder grain can get through.
If you shoot 3f you can close the frizzen and get a self prime. A 3/32 touch hole will let grains through.
Some guns seem to have enlarged the touch hole to get this effect( some could be burn outs, as touch hole liners were not made to speed shooting but to close wornholes.... The Jolly Tinker not withstanding)
I though it pretty neat when I discover this feature on one of my first flinters. Wow, I have a self priming gun.
Besides thinking it a poor idea to load a primed gun it greatly slows time from clatch to boom. As you have a full pan and a fuse effect.