Primitive Rear Sight Photos

[Mike Brooks]

Bird shot is common at all historical dig sites.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I love to go wingshooting with people who have rear sights on their fowling pieces. :grin:

I kinda doubt the folks that wanted hind sights on their trade guns back in the day even HAD any small shot, much less wanted to go wing shooting.

Dan

Ditto Mike's post above.
Also, please note I was referring to fowling pieces proper not trade guns.
I was also referring to me shooting in the here and now with fellow shooters and not back in the day. :thumbsup:

 

[Dphar]

Bird shot is common at all historical dig sites.

The clerk at Ft. Union or Ft. Laramie might have used it but I doubt the natives used much in these locales. Nor do you find small shot in the Rendezvous inventories so far as I have found.
Yes, especially around the Great Lakes they used a lot of small shot. Out here its not of much use unless the geese are around though we have had pretty decent upland bird populations the last 3 years or so. One could kill far more meat with the same amount of lead as a RB.

Most shotguns back in the day would be a cylinder bore of some sort or taper bored from the breech to mid-point then taper bored to the mid-point from the muzzle.

Now we have all sorts of modern dodges, shot cups (actually a form of these was used in the 19th century in Britain) jug chokes etc to make a ML perform like a modern choked gun then they think they are hunting traditional.
I suspect the typical smoothbore on the frontier, especially before the shot tower was less effective than many think.

Dan

 

[wildeagle]

Not sure where this will end up, but it's in response to a smoothebore rear sight.I fabricated it from an old silver spoon. Used a jewlers saw to cut out the pieces.Soldered it with Stay-Brite silver solder. I wanted an early wing type rear sight for my 20 ga. I am building. I also wanted the ability to take the sight off, if needed. I used wedges to attach the barrel to the stock. Being oct to round, there is plenty of clearance for the sight to slide from the muzzle to the oct part of the barrel. I formed the sight to fit tightly on the barrel ( friction ) and removed a small amount of wood from the stock so the sight will return to zero if it is removed from the gun. As was posted earlier Lenk's book is chock full of pictures and design ideas, my sight was patterned from a gun made in 1688. My smoothe rifle is not that early but I fell in love with this style of sight, I also tried to incorporate some French style into the gun.

 

[Many Klatch]

I love that silver sight.

Many Klatch

 

[wildeagle]

Thanks Andrew, the front and rear sight are the only silver on the gun. The rest is all brass. I'm all but done with it , I'll put up some pics when it's all buttoned up.
WE

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Great work. That's the reason that I love this forum. Gives me something to think about.

Thanks

Muskeg

 

[Capt. Jas.]

BRAVO!!!! :applause:

Please post pics of that gun with finished!

That is a very nice adaption of an early continental wing sight.

 

[lockjaw]

...genius , pure genius...

 

[Marc Adamchek]

I agree all the way. First of all, to conceive it, then make it, then fit it to the barrel...genius, pure genius

 

[wildeagle]

Hey, you fellows need to stop throwing that "genius" word around, it's just hillbilly tinkering, all self learned. Wait a minute, I fibbed , I did learn a little bit of silversmithing in high school, but heck that was so long ago I probably forgot more than I learned. What I really need to work on is my engraving, I look at some of the work done on this forum and I'm embarrassed to show my metal scratching. Practice ,practice , practice, but first I need to acquire some good tools! But sincerely, thanks for the compliments, it's really nice that people find one's handy work appealing. :grin:

 

[Shane Carter]

I like it, I like it alot! :thumbsup:

 

[Extranero]

Bird shot is common at all historical dig sites.

The clerk at Ft. Union or Ft. Laramie might have used it but I doubt the natives used much in these locales. Nor do you find small shot in the Rendezvous inventories so far as I have found.
Yes, especially around the Great Lakes they used a lot of small shot. Out here its not of much use unless the geese are around though we have had pretty decent upland bird populations the last 3 years or so. One could kill far more meat with the same amount of lead as a RB.

Most shotguns back in the day would be a cylinder bore of some sort or taper bored from the breech to mid-point then taper bored to the mid-point from the muzzle.

Now we have all sorts of modern dodges, shot cups (actually a form of these was used in the 19th century in Britain) jug chokes etc to make a ML perform like a modern choked gun then they think they are hunting traditional.
I suspect the typical smoothbore on the frontier, especially before the shot tower was less effective than many think.

Dan

Dan,

Ashely's records do not contain shot, but they don't contain shirts either. Just about every AFC trade list of goods going up river contains bags of shot. Do you think AFC just hauled this up for spend-thrift clerks like Larpentur? Not much of a market there, I suspect. As for the choke issue, why did they need a choke for flock shooting off the water.

I think most people on this board realize that you are a dyed in the wool rifle guy.

Sean

 

[BenCoogle]

Type "G" trade guns had brass rear sights for the most part. The method of attachment I have observed from corroded old dug ups was to cut a slot with a chisel (Iron works much differently than modern steels!) and lift a ledge on both ends. the sight was inserted and the edges were 'set down' with four flat punch marks on the corners.

The sight is about 2.5" in front of the breech. I have seen one with the sight removed and a new iron rifle sight dovetailed at the transition from Oct. to Round. Old eyes maybe.

The close to the eye sight actually works pretty well for older eyes, sort of like a peep.

I have observed several 6" Doglock plates dug around GA, possibly "Jamaica Guns".

One 'King's Cypher Gun' had a 36" barrel and no rear sight. this grave was dated 1780's.

 

[Viking78]

Here is the tang sight which was standard on Swedish Model 1815 muskets:

 

[tg]

Earlier records might shed a better light on the use of shot one order for 1000lbs of shot arouind 1700 for Goose is mentioned in French records,most often these threads start in the 18th century and get pulled into the RMFT and the rifle is better song and dance routine. I recall another early rcord of shot in several sizes for dove, duck and such,again early 18th century, kind of like the time of the sights on this thread :shocked2:

 

[BillinOregon]

Viking: Tell us more about the 1815 Swede. That's a very fine-looking musket. Caliber?

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Here's a photo of the rear sight I added to the 28 gauge smoothbore barrel I fitted to my T/C Penn Hunter. It stands just 1/10" above the top flat and is soldered on about as far forward as I could get it. It has a very wide open groove so as to interfere as little as possible with wing shooting, where I can easily ignore it.

 

[the11]

Many of the Northwest Trade Guns in the Museum of the Fur Trade have rear sights. They vary from quite crude, just a burr of metal raised with a chisel, to nicely dovetailed brass sights.

I can verify this. A friend of mine has the cut down barrel from an old trade gun that they found in a field in southwestern Saskatchewan. It had a crude rear sight that was raised from the barrel with a chisel. The front sight was made in a similar fashion, presumably after the barrel was cut down. The rear sight was very low. It just looked like a cut in the metal when you looked at it from above. But when you sighted down the barrel, you could see where the central notch was cut in the burr.

 

[Viking78]

The caliber of the Swede is nominal 18,55 mm (.73"), but mine is 18,3 (.72"). I haven't shot it yet, as I'm waiting for a new main spring and mould. I'll get back with a range report when I have got it working.