Problem with brass primer and powder measure.

[RichardPitts1]

Good day all.

I searched this forum for "broken" and didn't find anything. I have an adjustable powder measure and a three grain priming tool. Both are made from brass and both have cracked along the barrel. I bought them both from Trackofthewolf. They had been kept in my possibles bag, hangin on a hook inside my parents house for several years while I was off doing military things. I came home to find them cracked and broken. Is this unusual? do they break often? I'm looking for a replacement, and I would like to get something that isn't going to break.

 

[bpd303]

It is definitely unusual. I have several brass powder measures and flintlock primers, which have spent years/decades in my bag or shooting box without cracking. I've had mine so long I can't remember where I got em. Now that I think about it one of my oldest adjustable measures was bought from Dixie Gun works in the 70s. http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3720&osCsid=leuj25iavld5p09v6gv0oomoe5

 

[RichardPitts1]

The cracks formed longitudinally along the barrel of the pieces, They appear to be stress cracks, but I can't imagine what kind of load they were under. Since it happened to two similar items purchased at the same time, I guess it could be due to a bad batch off of the assembly line. Is there any kind of special care I should be taking of these tools? Here's a link to an imgur post with a picture I took of the broken items.

Thank you to anyone who spends the time to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong.
http://imgur.com/a/90f6w

 

[coloradoclyde]

Very strange....never hear of one cracking before.... :hmm: ....They both appear to be expansion cracks.....I would try to solder them shut.

 

[rdstrain49]

Think I'd gently pull the split together with appropriate size hose clamp then silver solder the split. And yes, that is indeed weird.

 

[Cowboy]

First off, Thank you for your service to our great country my brother! atriot:

Second thing is just WOW! Never heard nor seen anything like that. It is definitely a very rare thing to happen to just one of them, but with two! :youcrazy:

Never even read anything like that on this forum? You definitely got me intrigued! Would love some one else to chime in with a possible explanation.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[pa woods roamer]

Make sure there is powder residue in them before soldering them. And also,thanks for your service....

 

[Don Steele]

I use a similar "3-grain, spring loaded tip" priming tool. I've been using the same one for 15 yrs or so. Have no idea where I got it, probably Track but I don't know for sure, nor does it really matter at this point.
Several years ago...It exhibited the same longitudinal crack up the barrel from the base as shown in your pics.
Application of a small amount of totally historically IN-correct clear epoxy around the base has prevented the crack from expanding. It just looks like a hairline dark line on the brass tube now. No problems. :thumbsup:

 

[smo]

Never heard of that happening before . :hmm: I own a couple of each and the only problem I've ever had was with the spring in one of the primers :idunno:

 

[Calum]

'morning,

I had one of the primers do the same thing, although mine was from the bottom (feeder) end. Unfortunately I don't remember the circumstances, but I remember thinking that it was strange.

I kept the spring loaded end, in plans of eventually making a small antler tip horn using it. Needless to say, it's still sitting on the shelf..

Calum

 

[Grenadier1758]

Make sure there is powder residue in them before soldering them. And also,thanks for your service....

I think Lead Slinger meant that there should be NO powder residue before soldering. Try to clean the crack and apply some flux in the crack to draw in the solder. Be careful with the primer tube. Ypu don't want solder in the threads.

Stress is likely due to over tightening the base screw or the depth stop. Those tubes are quite thin and don't take much stress.

I have measures that are over 30 years old and no cracks. You only have to tighten these up to the firm level.

 

[RichardPitts1]

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful replies.
I'm just going to buy a new priming tool, since I've been using an old brass .44 case with a stick shoved in the opening to prime my lock since this one broke. It's less than 20$ so it'd cost less to buy a new one than to get the materials to do a good silver solder joint. I'm a blacksmith, not a jeweler. I was wondering about stress cracks. My new powder measure came with the lock screw on the bottom loose. Do people not leave that thing tight?

The crack formed at the base of the priming tool, and the plug seems to have been press-fitted into place. Maybe it's a design flaw. I guess it should have been threaded or something.

Could anyone point me toward a period correct tool for priming / charge measuring? I know that modern safety rules recommend using a separate measure and powder flask/horn...But I can't picture Carson or Bridger carrying anything more than they had to. I haven't seen a horn with a valve and measuring spout either. So they had to use something else. Maybe this should be another thread. Sorry for rambling and thanks for reading.

 

[SDSmlf]

Got one from TOW with a similar hairline crack. Cleaned it up and applied LocTite to the threads. Would not notice crack unless you were really looking for it. Thought about soldering it after the fact. Maybe related, had some 06 loaded up for a couple years (will have between 500 and 1000 reloaded and ready to go for CMP shoots) and noticed case necks failed with similar cracks. Have been annealing cases since (dipping in lead) and have not had any fail since. Brass had workhardened and couldn't take the hoop stress. With the priming tubes the bottoms are a pressfit..... same as the bullet in the 06 brass.

 

[hanshi]

Definitely odd. I've got brass flasks dating back to the 1960s that are still going strong. One brass primer is at least 25 yoa and in fine shape.

 

[Mean Gene]

:hmm: apparently you have an exceptional case.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Thank you - as others have said.

You don't have a younger brother of about 12 or 13 do you? ;-)

The measure I could maybe speculate powder residue around the plunger, and a full primer tube, absorbed moisture and it put enough pressure on the sleeve . . . nah.

You didn't insult a local witch doctor or something like that did you?

 

[fraungie]

The problem is brass is softer than steel that is why there are no sparks when brass is struck with a piece of steel and that is why a lot of items in muzzle loading that can and will make contact with steel are made of brass. It does not rust it will not spark a perfect application for brass. However brass is not as strong as steel and cannot take the stresses that steel can. That is why you use reduced loads in brass framed revolvers. The cracks are caused from pressure. If you fill your powder primer full to the top with powder and then screw in the cap. You will be trying to compress the powder. This will cause a lot of pressure inside the enclosed container. Every turn on that cap after the powder is fully compressed will increase the pressure. The weak link is the wall and it will split. I would as someone said remove all powder and silver solder or JB weld the crack closed. When you fill the container the next time do not fill it above the bottom of the female threads. Leave some space between the threads and the powder level. You will never miss that small amount of powder and if necessary get another priming horn. I have two in my shooting box. I hope this helps. I split one too. My Dad always said I was ham handed.

 

[RichardPitts1]

Well, I've never intentionally insulted a witch doctor, but I'm a navy sailor and occasionally a pretty offensive guy...Maybe I met the witch doctor's daughter somewhere along the line.

fraungie, the primer was empty when it broke. I'm guessing that the manufacturer didn't anneal the brass tube before pressing in the back plug. They're cheap, and the ones made 20+ years ago might not have been made in china...so quality control was probably a bit better.

I'm an engineer, with years of experience as a wrench bender prior to going to college, so I've got a decent understanding of relative strengths of materials...

I was just wondering if I got a lemon, or if it's a common problem and I should try to find another solution. Since looking on this site I've seen some really cool carved bone powder measures. I imagine you use a brass volume measure to calibrate the volume of the hole, dribble a few grains of powder in the pan, and dump the rest down the tube?

I guess the only reason to have a variable size powder measure is to accurately work up the most accurate load for your rifle.

 

[Flintfan69]

The crack formed at the base of the priming tool, and the plug seems to have been press-fitted into place. Maybe it's a design flaw. I guess it should have been threaded or something.

For what it's worth, I bought both of those same items within the last year or so, and they are different than the ones you posted pictures of. My primer has both caps threaded on. No press fit parts. And my measure looks similar to the one you posted, but it does have some cosmetic differences.

I suppose it's possible that they changed manufactures/designs because they had some issues? Just a thought. Haven't had any problems with mine yet.