Problem with flash channel plugging up

[Harley268]

Hello,
Just joined the forum a few days ago and thought I might need to post this question. Have done some looking around on here but can't seem to find an answer that works. My dad recently gave me a Percussion muzzleloader that was hand made and he had never fired it. The gun maker fired it once to make sure it worked and other than that it hasn't been fired in 40 years. It was kept in his safe and is in perfect condition. Now that I have it I plan on using it to take it's first deer this year. The gun seems to be super accurate using 100grns of triple 7. I am using a round ball and a lubed patch on top of that 100grns of powder. I have used CCI and Winchester caps (both size 11 magnums). My problem: when I swab out the barrel gunk seems to get into the flash channel and I can't fire it. I have had to remove the nipple and place a bit of FFF powder into the flash channel to ignite the main charge. I have tried dry patches alone. I have tried a wet patch first. I have tried spinning both types of patches at the bottom of the breech with my cleaning jag. So, at this point I am at a loss as to what to do to clean out the barrel without having to put in the 3F powder in the flash channel. I have taken 5 consecutive shots without the accuracy being affected, so that isn't an issue when it comes to the hunting woods, since I don't plan on needing to take many shots in the field.

Any recommendations as to what I can do to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all very much.

 

[Okie Hog]

When swabbing use a loose patch that goes down easy then bunches up to pull the fouling out of the bore. You may have to change the jag.

Remove the nipple and clean the flash channel using a bristled pipe cleaner:

Amazon.com: ZEN Bundles Zen Pipe Cleaners Hard Bristle, 132 Count (Pack of 3): Health & Personal Care

 

[Erwan]

.

 

[Harley268]

When swabbing use a loose patch that goes down easy then bunches up to pull the fouling out of the bore. You may have to change the jag.

Remove the nipple and clean the flash channel using a bristled pipe cleaner:

Amazon.com: ZEN Bundles Zen Pipe Cleaners Hard Bristle, 132 Count (Pack of 3): Health & Personal Care

So, would you suggest that I use a smaller patch and say a .50 jag instead of a .54, or even put a patch on a patch puller and try to clean the bore out? I did use a pipe cleaner to try and get the junk out of the flash channel, but the powder charge still wouldn't ignite without inserting some 3f powder in there.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Hello,
Just joined the forum a few days ago and thought I might need to post this question. Have done some looking around on here but can't seem to find an answer that works. My dad recently gave me a Percussion muzzleloader that was hand made and he had never fired it. The gun maker fired it once to make sure it worked and other than that it hasn't been fired in 40 years. It was kept in his safe and is in perfect condition. Now that I have it I plan on using it to take it's first deer this year. The gun seems to be super accurate using 100grns of triple 7. I am using a round ball and a lubed patch on top of that 100grns of powder. I have used CCI and Winchester caps (both size 11 magnums). My problem: when I swab out the barrel gunk seems to get into the flash channel and I can't fire it. I have had to remove the nipple and place a bit of FFF powder into the flash channel to ignite the main charge. I have tried dry patches alone. I have tried a wet patch first. I have tried spinning both types of patches at the bottom of the breech with my cleaning jag. So, at this point I am at a loss as to what to do to clean out the barrel without having to put in the 3F powder in the flash channel. I have taken 5 consecutive shots without the accuracy being affected, so that isn't an issue when it comes to the hunting woods, since I don't plan on needing to take many shots in the field.

Any recommendations as to what I can do to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all very much.

First of all, with all do respect to you: when you spin the RR, do you really think the patch spins too? How can it, there is no grip lips to make the patch go circular with the jag? Besides, a patch hard against the breech is going to force crud in any small opening. I shoot flint, but the TH is the same issue as your percussion flash hole. Use a moist cleaning patch, not dripping wet and stroke to with in 1 to 1.5" of the breech plug face. Before pouring powder, pop a cap with the barrel pointed down at a blade of grass. If the grass moves, you are good to go. I like to wait a little before pouring powder to make sure there are no embers lurking.
Larry

 

[Grenadier1758]

Just how wet is your patch when you wipe between shots? An overly wet wiping patch will leave a lot of goopy fouling down at the breech. You want a patch that is just barely damp and as @Okie Hog has stated you need a smaller jag or thinner cleaning patch so the patch slides over the fouling and bunches up to pull the fouling out of the barrel. One practice to clean the flash channel is run the damp patch down to the breech and fire a cap to clear the flash channel. The fouling is blown into the patch and the fouling can be pulled from the barrel. The heat from the cap being fired will dry the flash channel.

 

[bubba.50]

Quit pushin' all that crud down your barrel. just load the next shot and enjoy.

 

[Okie Hog]

100 grains of 777 will leave a crud ring. You are forcing the 777 crud ring into the patent breech and flash channel. Do as Larry suggests and stop the patch about 1.5" above the breech.

So, would you suggest that I use a smaller patch and say a .50 jag instead of a .54, or even put a patch on a patch puller and try to clean the bore out?

i use a short jag that allows the patch to bunch up as it' pulled from the bore.

 

[Harley268]

It appears that going all the way down to the breech is what is causing my problems with this rifle- I have always taken the patch all the way down the barrel to the breech on various muzzleloaders for years (in-lines, flintlocks, percussions) and this is the first time I have had this problem. But everything all of you are saying makes sense. I think I will try simply stopping the patch a few inches short of where the flash channel inters the breech and then blow out the crud with a cap.

 

[Harley268]

Just how wet is your patch when you wipe between shots? An overly wet wiping patch will leave a lot of goopy fouling down at the breech. You want a patch that is just barely damp and as @Okie Hog has stated you need a smaller jag or thinner cleaning patch so the patch slides over the fouling and bunches up to pull the fouling out of the barrel. One practice to clean the flash channel is run the damp patch down to the breech and fire a cap to clear the flash channel. The fouling is blown into the patch and the fouling can be pulled from the barrel. The heat from the cap being fired will dry the flash channel.

I tried with both a dry patch and a "semi-wet" patch and both caused the same problem.

 

[Harley268]

First of all, with all do respect to you: when you spin the RR, do you really think the patch spins too? How can it, there is no grip lips to make the patch go circular with the jag? Besides, a patch hard against the breech is going to force crud in any small opening. I shoot flint, but the TH is the same issue as your percussion flash hole. Use a moist cleaning patch, not dripping wet and stroke to with in 1 to 1.5" of the breech plug face. Before pouring powder, pop a cap with the barrel pointed down at a blade of grass. If the grass moves, you are good to go. I like to wait a little before pouring powder to make sure there are no embers lurking.
Larry

Good point on the spinning of the ramrod, never thought about that all these years, but totally makes sense.

 

[ord sgt]

If you wipe the barrel between shots, put a percussion cap on an unloaded barrel and point in a safe direction and fire the cap. Place another cap on an unloaded barrel and point the firearm toward the ground and fire again. You should see grass or dirt move, that shows that you have a clear flash channel.
Before you load your firearm, always snap a cap on an UNLOADED firearm, pointing it in a safe direction. This will insure that the flash channel is clear of any oils or gunk left from the previous cleaning.

 

[deerstalkert]

first, pictures of the gun are required!
second lose the 777. every time i use it, (a friend gave me 2 pounds for turning him on to muzzleloading) i regret loading it. especially in a rock scratcher.
in my percussions i will only use "Magnum" caps with 777.
when others say to use a loose patch so it can bunch up, that is a patch that extends past the rod junction of the jag and "flaps in the breeze" as it goes down the bore. when on the reverse pull it "bunches" up and pulls the fouling out the muzzle.
be careful as it can get stuck if bottomed out in the barrel. if using your RR for cleaning you can pull the end off . we mostly all have done it.
again, Pictures!!!

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

first, pictures of the gun are required!
second lose the 777. every time i use it, (a friend gave me 2 pounds for turning him on to muzzleloading) i regret loading it. especially in a rock scratcher.
in my percussions i will only use "Magnum" caps with 777.
when others say to use a loose patch so it can bunch up, that is a patch that extends past the rod junction of the jag and "flaps in the breeze" as it goes down the bore. when on the reverse pull it "bunches" up and pulls the fouling out the muzzle.
be careful as it can get stuck if bottomed out in the barrel. if using your RR for cleaning you can pull the end off . we mostly all have done it.
again, Pictures!!!

If your RR ends are cross pinned, that can be avoided.
Larry

 

[deerstalkert]

If your RR ends are cross pinned, that can be avoided.
Larry

YUP! i should have included that. senior moment!

 

[Harley268]

first, pictures of the gun are required!
second lose the 777. every time i use it, (a friend gave me 2 pounds for turning him on to muzzleloading) i regret loading it. especially in a rock scratcher.
in my percussions i will only use "Magnum" caps with 777.
when others say to use a loose patch so it can bunch up, that is a patch that extends past the rod junction of the jag and "flaps in the breeze" as it goes down the bore. when on the reverse pull it "bunches" up and pulls the fouling out the muzzle.
be careful as it can get stuck if bottomed out in the barrel. if using your RR for cleaning you can pull the end off . we mostly all have done it.
again, Pictures!!!

Personally, I love 777 over everything else (BP, Pyrodex, ect). I will make sure I use a shorter jag so that it extends beyond the junction/joint you are referring to.

 

[Harley268]

And I will post a few pics as soon as I get a chance today.

 

[necchi]

The gun maker fired it once to make sure it worked and other than that it hasn't been fired in 40 years. It was kept in his safe and is in perfect condition.

That raises a flag for me.
Sounds like the gun was treated properly and in most cases long term storage preparation includes proper lubrication and/or the use of a petroleum based preservative.
During storage, oils migrate to lower areas and stay there. Old oils dry out but still leave a residue.
The powders we use in these traditional guns does not tolerate the presents of any oils all. If a gun is fired without being absolutely clean, the heat and powder residue along with oils forms a hard baked on crust that can foul and/or restrict the flash channel.
Once it's in there, that type of fouling will cause the problem you describe. I've seen it in all manufactures traditional guns.

The stuff is a PITA to get out of there, but it can be done. There are several techniques that work, with each basically requiring some elbow grease and flushing with a petroleum based solvent. The soapy water cleaning and rinse we usually use will not remove this fouling.

Swabbing between shot's is a technique of itself that requires a practiced hand, but if done properly usually does not cause a flash channel to be plugged.
I have used the practice of swabbing after every shot with all my guns for decades and have fired 100's of consecutive shots without a problem.
Looking forward to photo's of the breech style,,

 

[Grenadier1758]

I think we may need a few details with respect to the breech of your rifle. Pictures would answer some of the questions. We need to know if you have a chambered breech and if the breech plug holds the nipple and flash channel or if you have a drum and nipple threaded into the barrel. Do you have a hooked breech?

Describe how you clean the rifle. How is it prepared for storage? What do you do before loading and firing the rifle?

In the event of a drum and niple, you should have the least of the problems unless the drum is threaded too deeply into the barrel.

I am trying to determine if there are oils left in the breech.

 

[renegadehunter]

I had the same issue when swabbing between shots. Your patch/jag combo is too tight, so it pushes fouling down ahead of it and you wind up with a blocked flame channel.
Popping an extra cap every shot will usually solve the problem. After swabbing you put a cap on and blow out the fouling. Pointing the muzzle at a leaf, blade of grass, or even a dry patch you placed on the ground will help show that it is clear. Fouling will come out and the object on the ground will move. Then load as normal.
You can also buy a bit smaller jag or even turn down the one you have. When I was having this same problem I read from someone on here that I could simply chuck my jag into a cordless drill and then spin it on a flat file to turn it down in diameter some. I did so and now it is a rare occurrence for me to have the flame channel blocked after swabbing. Like several said above, the patch goes down the barrel with little resistance and then bunches up and pulls the fouling back out of the bore. I like to use a damp patch that nothing can be wrung out of, run it down the bore smoothly, then pause for about 8 seconds so the fouling can soften a bit, and then pull it back out. At the range I often don't bother with a second drying patch. No extra cap has to be used if you get the patch and jag combo the correct size. I use a 2" cleaning patch with my turned down jag.

I have a .54 too, and I did measure with calipers what my jag ended up at after I turned it down. I don't remember what the exact measurement was, but do remember that is was very close to being the "factory" size of a .52 cal jag. I believe you could just buy a .52 cal jag and it'd work just fine.
I did buy a second .54 cal jag that I left "full sized" so I had that tight fitment for when I clean using the bucket of water method.

The others above wondering about some preservative sitting in the flame channel for 40 years and turning into a sticky paste that has the flame channel size reduced down from what it's suppose to be also make a lot of sense.