Problem with flash channel plugging up

[Norman Brooks]

I am assuming this is a Hawken style gun? Is it custom made or off the shelf? Either way the flash channel may have burrs the are hindering the powder getting to the nipple. You may have to un-breach it and do some work on it to radius the passages. Another thing are you dumping the powder then lifting the gun off the ground and using the palm of you other hand and tapping the side of the barrel to settle the powder down in the flash channel. If you don't feel you can do the un-breaching find a gun smith that can... I had the same problem with a .50 Hawken I built about 15 years ago, had to un-breach it.

 

[hanshi]

Swabbing after each shot certainly can push gunk into the firing channel, and this is the reason I don't swab the bore until I've finished shooting for the day. If the rifle has a "patent breech" then that compounds the problem. Cleaning with a pulling motion rather than a pushing motion is the only way to be sure you're not clogging the fire channel.

 

[Harley268]

Here are some pics that you guys requested- I don't know how much this will tell you. I didn't feel like getting my nipple wrench back out and taking off the nipple. I am 99% sure that what many of you stated is occurring: pushing the gunk down with my patch because my patch is too tight within the barrel.

 

[nit wit]

After you clean always put the muzzle to a leaf or blade of grass and snap a cap.
Nit Wit

 

[deerstalkert]

very nice! beautiful stripe's!

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Harley268, your pictures tell us a lot.

You have a Hawken styled rifle with a chambered breech. Some may call it a patent breech. For what is happening, it makes no difference. The powder chamber is located in the breech plug. The chamber diameter is smaller than the bore diameter. Your jag will stop just short of the chamber. But if you have a tight jag, you will be pushing fouling into the chamber breech. It doesn't take too long to pack that chamber full of fouling. A pipe cleaner will clean the flash channel from the nipple seat to the rear of powder chamber and not clean out the fouling in the chamber. This is where firing a cap with the damp jag at the breech will blow the fouling from the chamber into the patch to be removed with the patch. A good practice is to stop the wipe between shots about an inch from the top of the chambered breech.

If the rifle was totally cleaned and heavily oiled 40 years ago, then stored with the muzzle up, that oil could have jelled and blocked the powder chamber. A good cleaning using a good measure of rubbing alcohol will go a long way to removing all the preservative at the breech.

Your pictures also tell us you have a very nice rifle.

This picture was used for an example of a T/C Hawken breech. Your chamber is similar but you don't have the plug used to fill the access to the powder chamber and that's just fine. You can see that the breech plug will stop the wiping patch from going all the way through to the end of the chamber while the chamber provides an excellent place to collect black powder fouling, even from 777. It will take a 30 caliber bore brush with a damp patch to clean that chamber. It is very difficult to have a pipe cleaner reach from the nipple seat to reach through the powder chamber.

The chambered breech is one design where using the never wipe loading method will work. You are using the damp lubricated patched round ball to wipe the fouling from the grooves and leaving the fouling between the powder and the ball.

 

[J. Paul]

I had trouble with mine for 3 or 4 years, the first 3 or 4 shots of a day would require a bit of 4f be put in flash channel after cap would fail to ignite the charge. Another shooter told me to try store ML barrel down and see if it made a difference. Intetestingly it almost totally eliminated the plugged flash channel. I have always used water and dish soap for cleanup after shooting (how I was taught 50 years ago) and I use a bit of patch lube on a cleaning patch to wipe down clean barrel.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Your best bet is to purchase yourself one of the relatively inexpensive 10-in-1 pressurized steam cleaners off of eBay. There are dozens of brands, all very similar to one another. Idaholewis has (still has?) Youtube videos, one of which shows him cleaning the almost identical powder chamber & flash channel as pictured above in a Thompson/Center rifle. If his videos have been removed from Youtube, then our sister forum, Modern Muzzleloading might have it archived.

The intense heat from the pressurized steam cleaner will strip the barrel and breech plug down to bare metal. Removing ALL of the fouling, or coagulated oils that might have collected in the flash channel.

 

[Harley268]

This is the second time I have tried to post pics, hopefully they show up this time.

 

[Harley268]

@Harley268, your pictures tell us a lot.

You have a Hawken styled rifle with a chambered breech. Some may call it a patent breech. For what is happening, it makes no difference. The powder chamber is located in the breech plug. The chamber diameter is smaller than the bore diameter. Your jag will stop just short of the chamber. But if you have a tight jag, you will be pushing fouling into the chamber breech. It doesn't take too long to pack that chamber full of fouling. A pipe cleaner will clean the flash channel from the nipple seat to the rear of powder chamber and not clean out the fouling in the chamber. This is where firing a cap with the damp jag at the breech will blow the fouling from the chamber into the patch to be removed with the patch. A good practice is to stop the wipe between shots about an inch from the top of the chambered breech.

If the rifle was totally cleaned and heavily oiled 40 years ago, then stored with the muzzle up, that oil could have jelled and blocked the powder chamber. A good cleaning using a good measure of rubbing alcohol will go a long way to removing all the preservative at the breech.

Your pictures also tell us you have a very nice rifle.

This picture was used for an example of a T/C Hawken breech. Your chamber is similar but you don't have the plug used to fill the access to the powder chamber and that's just fine. You can see that the breech plug will stop the wiping patch from going all the way through to the end of the chamber while the chamber provides an excellent place to collect black powder fouling, even from 777. It will take a 30 caliber bore brush with a damp patch to clean that chamber. It is very difficult to have a pipe cleaner reach from the nipple seat to reach through the powder chamber.

The chambered breech is one design where using the never wipe loading method will work. You are using the damp lubricated patched round ball to wipe the fouling from the grooves and leaving the fouling between the powder and the ball.

View attachment 80953

Rifle would have been oiled, but we always store our rifles muzzle end down to prevent exactly what you are talking about in regard to oil running back into the breech area/action with modern rifles.

 

[Harley268]

Thanks to all of you for the great advice- I will do some more shooting after the weekend (too busy with a graduation party/military send-off for my son to do more testing today or tomorrow). I will report back once I have fired more rounds.

 

[flntlokr]

Hello,
Just joined the forum a few days ago and thought I might need to post this question. Have done some looking around on here but can't seem to find an answer that works. My dad recently gave me a Percussion muzzleloader that was hand made and he had never fired it. The gun maker fired it once to make sure it worked and other than that it hasn't been fired in 40 years. It was kept in his safe and is in perfect condition. Now that I have it I plan on using it to take it's first deer this year. The gun seems to be super accurate using 100grns of triple 7. I am using a round ball and a lubed patch on top of that 100grns of powder. I have used CCI and Winchester caps (both size 11 magnums). My problem: when I swab out the barrel gunk seems to get into the flash channel and I can't fire it. I have had to remove the nipple and place a bit of FFF powder into the flash channel to ignite the main charge. I have tried dry patches alone. I have tried a wet patch first. I have tried spinning both types of patches at the bottom of the breech with my cleaning jag. So, at this point I am at a loss as to what to do to clean out the barrel without having to put in the 3F powder in the flash channel. I have taken 5 consecutive shots without the accuracy being affected, so that isn't an issue when it comes to the hunting woods, since I don't plan on needing to take many shots in the field.
My suggestion would be to stop swabbing between shots. Use a water-based lube when you load, and that will clean the bore with each shot. I use cotton duck patches which I punch out . I fill a pill bottle with dryn patches, then squirt in a bit of detergent, then fill the bottle with water. Give it a bit of time to thoroughly soak the fabric, and when it's time to shoot, I take out a stack of patches and squeeze as much water out as I can. That is wet enough to lube and clean the bore. I can shoot all day and never need to swab. If I detect a bit of 'sticking' just above the powder, I use a slightlt wetter patch and push it down slowly for the next shot.

Any recommendations as to what I can do to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all very much.

M

 

[JacobLandry]

Hello,
Just joined the forum a few days ago and thought I might need to post this question. Have done some looking around on here but can't seem to find an answer that works. My dad recently gave me a Percussion muzzleloader that was hand made and he had never fired it. The gun maker fired it once to make sure it worked and other than that it hasn't been fired in 40 years. It was kept in his safe and is in perfect condition. Now that I have it I plan on using it to take it's first deer this year. The gun seems to be super accurate using 100grns of triple 7. I am using a round ball and a lubed patch on top of that 100grns of powder. I have used CCI and Winchester caps (both size 11 magnums). My problem: when I swab out the barrel gunk seems to get into the flash channel and I can't fire it. I have had to remove the nipple and place a bit of FFF powder into the flash channel to ignite the main charge. I have tried dry patches alone. I have tried a wet patch first. I have tried spinning both types of patches at the bottom of the breech with my cleaning jag. So, at this point I am at a loss as to what to do to clean out the barrel without having to put in the 3F powder in the flash channel. I have taken 5 consecutive shots without the accuracy being affected, so that isn't an issue when it comes to the hunting woods, since I don't plan on needing to take many shots in the field.

Any recommendations as to what I can do to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all very much.

You are causing your own problem. Don’t swab between shots. I shoot all day with a similar gun.

 

[JamesA]

Here are some pics that you guys requested- I don't know how much this will tell you. I didn't feel like getting my nipple wrench back out and taking off the nipple. I am 99% sure that what many of you stated is occurring: pushing the gunk down with my patch because my patch is too tight within the barrel.

That is some seriously good looking wood. I am envious.

 

[Harley268]

That is some seriously good looking wood. I am envious.

Thank you, it was my Dad's pride and joy, but he never fired it (unlike him to have a safe queen, only one he ever had to my knowledge), but I am determined to take a deer with it next season).

 

[Harley268]

You are causing your own problem. Don’t swab between shots. I shoot all day with a similar gun.

So you "never" swab until you are done shooting for the day and then do a full cleaning? I would think accuracy would be affected after so many shots and the barrel would need to have some kind of patch run through it?

 

[BadDaditood]

I never swab either, not since going to thicker, tighter duck or denim patches (.022”)
I used to run a wet cleaning patch down on top of a fresh load, but since finding the right tight patch/ball combo it comes up so clean I quit doing that.

 

[deerstalkert]

i fired 30 loads from my 54 cal percussion yesterday. Around 25 i had to start double tapping the rod to seat the ball. one spit patch was all that was needed to get it back to just pushing the rod to seated ball. if i had to swab after every shot i would quit.

 

[Bad Karma]

So you "never" swab until you are done shooting for the day and then do a full cleaning? I would think accuracy would be affected after so many shots and the barrel would need to have some kind of patch run through it?

I swab between shots when purely accuracy testing. Lately, on the advice of a friend I’ve been using Heet additive, dries quickly and an extra cap should pop all the crud out of the breech.

 

[French Colonial]

I agree with Deerstalkert, if I had to swab between every shot I would take up needlepoint.
People make this more complicated than it needs to be, stick an unlubed patch in your mouth while you put powder down the bore, load a ball using the patch, prime the pan and shoot...repeat.

I have NEVER swabbed, wet or dry, between shots and after doing this for 40 years I am not going to start.

Curious, how do you swabbers do a woodswalk?