Problem with hammer on Hawkens rifle

[bioprof]

I'm putting together a Kit Carson rifle from TOW parts. I finally got the rifle buttoned up, but the hammer doesn't quite reach the nipple. It is about 1/8 inch too short. Currently, the front rim of the hammer is just hitting the nipple.

My problem is that it doesn't look like bending the hammer is going to solve the problem. If I just bend the hammer, the face of the hammer isn't going to be hitting the nipple flush. Is is possible to heat the hammer and stretch it out? The only thing I have available to do this with is a propane torch, but I don't think this will get it hot enough. Any suggestions?

I have another question. Why do they sell parts for a precarved stock that don't fit together at all? I can understand that there will always be a need for some hand fitting, but this seems kind of ridiculous.

 

[Mulebrain]

If it was me I would call TOW, and see what they have to say. They should swap out the kit for something that fits. This should make you much happier!

 

[MikeChapin]

If you're hitting the nipple you should be able to cold bend the hammer to have it hitting the nipple square. You can grind the inside surface of the hammer to have it hit square it you want.

I restocked a CVA Mountain Rifle about twenty yeara ago. You would think that lining up the bolster with the lock would be enough to have the hammer hit properly but it wasn't. I had the same problem you do. I cold bent the hammer to hit the nipple. I was going to grind the striking area square but never got around to it. It is not peening the nipple on one side and the gun goes off fine.

I am finishing up a full stock Hawkin that I bought a pre-inlet second stock for. The pre-inletting does save some work but adds other headaches that end up to make more work than if the rifle was just pre-shaped without the inletting. If I was going to go with the pre-inlet I would go all the way and get an "in the white" kit. Otherwise I would go with a pre-shaped with just the barrel and ramrod channel done.

 

[Dave K]

Since the barrel/nipple is independent of the lock, did you need to set the barrel back a little further? Did you install the drum? Did you get it positioned correctly? I am NO EXPERT, but it sounds for that 1/8" I would look at bringing the barrel back.

 

Sorry, but making sure the hammer and nipple line up IS part of the hand fitting!

A precarve stock and TOW kit is not a 90% finished assembly as one would get from Cabellas.

Builders' kits have always been a box of parts requireing more than airplane glue for assembly.

I will assure you that your "complaint call" will be a source of discussion (jokes)in the TOW break room for some time.

If the barrel needs to be set back 1/8" then do it. You will simply have to remove a bit of wood from tne breech area and possibly replace the inlays for the wedges with oversized units.

Yes, it's a lot of work trying to figure these things out. That's what gunbuilders do.

:sorry:

 

[Dave K]

Ghost, he may be able to use the same barrel wedges, inlays and locations in the stock, but just go with a little oversize tennons on the barrel, to allow that 1/8" set back. Just my opinion.

 

[bioprof]

The patented breech on this rifle has a long tang that is thinner in the middle than the ends and was already pre-inletted, so I don't see how I could move the barrel back without messing up the inletting of the tang. I think it would be easier to stretch the hammer out a bit or see if TOW has a longer hammer. I'll try to post a picture of the current orientation of the hammer with respect to the nipple later today.

 

[bioprof]

Here's a picture of the hammer. I think I'll need a bigger hammer to cold bend the arm. Replies to previous similar posts have suggested heating it red hot to bend in the longitudinal axis.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

You could make certain that the tumbler is on its stop when the hammer is fully forward. A splinter could be blocking it. It's worth checking out.

 

Your hook breech is not fitting up solidly to the breechface!

I'll bet there is some casting flash in the socket or the hook has not been worked down to proper size to fit.

That gap between the nipple bolster and flash shield is just about the amount that needs to be closed up for proper fit.

I'll bet the oversized tenions will not even be neccessary.

:results:

 

[Dave K]

Ghost, you are right! A picture is worth a 1000 words! Looks like an easy fix from here now.

 

[Zonie]

Unless you have access to some powerful pieces of equipment, you will not be able to stretch the hammer out, even if it's at red/yellow heat.
That said, I agree that you need to consider moving the barrel aft, but notice the fit of the breech to the lockplate.
I doubt that you can get over 1/32 of an inch movement without filing material from the bolster or the lockplate.

Although your concern about the tangs fit has merit, I would think it could be moved quite a bit aft without opening any serious gaps between it and the wood.

Looking at the picture, I think if you do all you can to move the barrel aft and it still is not enough, you could bend the nose of the hammer slightly upward to move the nose forward (given enough heat and a big wrench). It may suprise you how little it really needs to move forward to make a big difference in it's fit with the nipple.

 

[kentucky bucky]

Yes, the breech face isn't snugged up to the tang section of the hooked breech, but it could be wood in the lock mortice stopping the mainspring and/or tumbler. This happened to me and thank goodness I figured it out before I fiddled with the barrel, etc. :m2c:

 

[Gary]

Good work Ghost!

bioprof - plz post new pics when it's fixed. We'll give Ghost the Mettle o' Merit award. ::

 

[bioprof]

The breech face is up tight against the tang, but I have a gap on the right hand side as a result of overzealous filing along the edge. (I'm not sure I have all of my terminology right). I had a heck of a time hand fitting the breech face to the tang. Was up till 2 a.m. one morning working on it. The more filing I did on the breech face, the bigger the gap got. I finally figured out that I had to file the hook to get it to fit flush. I finally gave up because I was afraid that I was just making it worse.

I'm going to look at it again. I might be able to move the barrel back a hair by getting a better fit between the patented breech and the tang. I'm glad that I had L.C. Rice fit the breech for me. At least that part is nice and tight.

 

[rich pierce]

Your best bet at this point is to get a hammer with a longer throw.

I know diddly squat about kits but it seems there are several types. Some kits seem to have most of the work done, and others are a collection of parts. I stay away from kits for lots of reasons, but mostly because I like to design and build guns, not just assemble them and finish them.

Trick for getting the snail tight to the lock: Hawkens are among the hardest guns to build. Getting that patent breech in right is critical, and fitting the lock to the snail is dicey.

1) Inlet the barrel
2) Inlet the barrel and tang soldered together
3) Take the barrel out and flip it and put the muzzle end in the breech. You must not have the sights installed and the berral must be straight, now tapered for this to work. Muzzle to breech, stop flat down, snug it up to the breech. Clamp it in place gently. This way there's no snail to work around.
4) Get the lock inletted there tight up against the barrel, then take it out.
5) Put the barrel back in "right", breech end in the breech, with the tang.
6) Take a piece of thin plastic sheet, thin cardboard, card stock, and cut it to fit your lockplate. What the heck, make 3-4 of them. Now take the first one and rough out a cutout for the snail, a little undersize cutout.
7) insert into the lock mortise and see how she fits. Mess around till you get a template that fits the underside of the snail perfectly.
8) scribe the outline of the cutout on the lock and cut/file just outside the line by .020 or so.
8) take barrel out, put lock in, inletting black on snail, put barrel back in, remove steel on lockplate till it fits perfectly and the barrel is "down".

OK, you can't do that now and maybe in a kit you never could. Here's what I'd do for that gap in the patent breech (you need to do something because it's going to foul in there). I'd solder that baby back together, re-checking to se eit fits perfectly in the stock, then I'd peen the exterior of the joint judiciously with a rounded punch of large diameter. Push metal toward the center of the joint. Then re-file and clean up the exterior.

All patent breeches should be case-hardened. Else they wear excessively. Every single patent breech I've seen on originals is case-hardened. If you can't do it the old fashioned way, do it with Kasenit.

 

[bioprof]

Thanks for all your input. When I took the tang and breech out of the stock, they fit so that patented breech was snug against the tang at the snail portion. However, when I put it back in the stock, the breech dropped down so that there was that visible gap.

My solution was to take the tang out and bend it so that the angle was complementary with the face of the breech. That enabled the barrel to move backwards which brought my hammer face closer to the nipple.

I still will have to bend the hammer upward, but I'm a lot closer now and I don't think it will have to be "stretched" much, if at all.

I talked to TOW earlier today and without seeing it, there only solution was to heat it with an acetylene torch or oxygenated torch until white hot and stretching the hammer.

Below is a picture of where I am currently. I now have a big gap between the patented breech and the bolster, but with proper inletting, I think I can drop it down. Btw, the barrel keys seem to fit even better than before. I'm closer to being a happy camper now. Thanks again to all. :master: