Problem with ignition on my new Hawken

[ligonierbill]

I completed a replica of a late Hawken some weeks ago. TOTW components and a Rice 58 caliber barrel with their patent breech. Finally got to the range today, snapped a couple caps, and loaded her up. Same load as I use in my Marshall rock lock: 85 gr FFg, 0.010 lubed pillow ticking, and a 0.570 round ball. First shot, no problem. In fact, I put it in the black at 25 yards after merely eyeballing the sights. Then, I did wrong (I think). Like any old flinter, I ran a spit patch down to clear out some of the fowling, then reloaded. No, I did not dry ball it. Distinctly remember loading the powder. But this time, she won't go off. Ran several CCI #11 and RWS 75 caps. Got out my flinter touchhole pick. More caps. Nothing. I think I pushed fowling into the breech.

I do have a ball puller and one of those cam lever rod pullers, so I imagine I can get the ball out. But I'd rather not. Any hacks? And however I remove this load, I don't want to do it again. Advice? Danged new fangled cap guns!

 

[longcruise]

It's going to be easier to leak some powder under the nipple to set it off. Unless you are unable to get to a safe place!

 

[Grenadier1758]

First, powder under the nipple.
Second, CO2 discharger.
Third, ball puller or grease gun.

 

[[email protected]]

I dont think you will find any birds in the bore though... fowling, LOL

 

[Tasbay]

Remove the nipple, bit of powder in the flash hole. Replace nipple and fire. I spit patch between every shot as my homemade powder is a bit dirty. I always point the barrel down and give the lock a couple of slaps to remove any lose fouling after the swab.

 

[ligonierbill]

Thanks guys. I thought of 4F under the nipple, but I'm glad to see you endorse it. I once got a ball out of a fowler (as opposed to fouler) that somehow had no powder under it with a bit of 4F through the touchhole. Grumping aside, I was impressed by the lock time of this rifle. My flintlocks all have Chambers locks, except for one L&R. They're all fast, but not that fast. I'll let you know how I do.

 

[nit wit]

Liberal amounts of spit will keep you shooting without swabbing!
Nit Wit

 

[Grenadier1758]

If you want to wipe the fouling from the bore between shots, you need a slightly smaller loading jag than a cleaning jag. The patch on the smaller jag
Will slide over the fouling avoiding wiping fouling into the breech and will bunch uo to effectively pull the fouling out.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

If you want to wipe the fouling from the bore between shots, you need a slightly smaller loading jag than a cleaning jag. The patch on the smaller jag
Will slide over the fouling avoiding wiping fouling into the breech and will bunch uo to effectively pull the fouling out.

got a question.if im shooting a .50 caliber renegade an i use a .45 caliber jag with a .50 caliber patch? i dont have a .45 caliber jag but i will go buy one.

 

[Grenadier1758]

That should work @oldschoolhunter55. Although taking a spare 50 caliber jag and using your hand-held electric drill to hold the jag as you take the diameter down using a file. I would prefer to make a 47 caliber jag to use as the wiping/loading jag.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Some pictures of your new rifle would be nice. Like Nitwit says, lots of spit is good. At matches anyway it's all I use. You should be able to get off a lot of shots with it. I use a damp patch, not wet, between relays to swab the bore since at 10 or 15% humidity the fouling gets hard fast.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

That should work @oldschoolhunter55. Although taking a spare 50 caliber jag and using your hand-held electric drill to hold the jag as you take the diameter down using a file. I would prefer to make a 47 caliber jag to use as the wiping/loading jag.

That should work @oldschoolhunter55. Although taking a spare 50 caliber jag and using your hand-held electric drill to hold the jag as you take the diameter down using a file. I would prefer to make a 47 caliber jag to use as the wiping/loading jag.

hey friend. thank you very much for this information.i really appreciate you helping me on this.people on here have a wealth of information. i appreciate all of you

 

[Okie Hog]

It's going to be easier to leak some powder under the nipple to set it off.

Works every time for me.

 

[beardedhorse]

Sounds like no fire from nipple to powder. Would taking out the nipple and running a pipe cleaner through the channel in the snail clear the fouling? Assume the Hawken has a snail in the patent breech and not a drum. I recommend a stainless steel work rod and muzzle protector and ball pulling screw/jag instead of your wooden ramrod to pull the ball out on the loaded rifle. The padded cam/leverl rod pulling pliers can still put a dent in a hickory ramrod. Plus you are putting your hands over a ball with powder under it. A ball or T handle on the end of the steel rod goes in a notch on a metal plate in front of a bench on the range. The muzzle is pointed down range and the rifle pulled away from the berm. Let us know what suggested options you used to clear the load. Good luck. By the way, which lock with the good lock time is on your late Hawken replica? R. E. Davis version of Ron Long's lock or L and R or other?

 

[Okie Hog]

Would taking out the nipple and running a pipe cleaner through the channel in the snail clear the fouling?

Often a bristled pipe cleaner will clear the crud.

 

[SDSmlf]

got a question.if im shooting a .50 caliber renegade an i use a .45 caliber jag with a .50 caliber patch? i dont have a .45 caliber jag but i will go buy one.

One of those old rule of thumb things that I was taught years ago for swabbing between shots (if deemed necessary) was to size the cleaning jag and patches so that with two patches on the jag it would slide down a clean bore easily with little more than the ramrod weight applied. When swabbing between shots a single cleaning patch on the jag would then typically go down the bore without pushing the fouling ahead of it so you could bring the fouling out when you pulled the patch jag combo out.

Another thing to consider is popping off a cap after swabbing and before reloading. Put a clean patch your jag and run it down the bore before popping that cap. The distinct marking on the patch will tell you if the fire channel is clear.

 

[ligonierbill]

Thanks for the advice. I'll get to the range next week, but this time I'll also take the Marshall for a shootoff (and a ball puller just in case). Here are both, 20 years apart by the way.

Sounds like no fire from nipple to powder. Would taking out the nipple and running a pipe cleaner through the channel in the snail clear the fouling? Assume the Hawken has a snail in the patent breech and not a drum. I recommend a stainless steel work rod and muzzle protector and ball pulling screw/jag instead of your wooden ramrod to pull the ball out on the loaded rifle. The padded cam/leverl rod pulling pliers can still put a dent in a hickory ramrod. Plus you are putting your hands over a ball with powder under it. A ball or T handle on the end of the steel rod goes in a notch on a metal plate in front of a bench on the range. The muzzle is pointed down range and the rifle pulled away from the berm. Let us know what suggested options you used to clear the load. Good luck. By the way, which lock with the good lock time is on your late Hawken replica? R. E. Davis version of Ron Long's lock or L and R or other?

Davis lock. I have a fiberglass range rod, but hopefully I won't need to pull the ball. I will report the outcome.

 

[ligonierbill]

Yes, the 4F under the nipple worked...twice. "Moment of truth" at the range this afternoon, and she went "Bang". And put the ball low and left in the 10-ring. Now I'm happy. Snapped a couple caps, no wiping this time, and loaded again. Nope! Pulled the nipple again, a couple shots from my flintlock primer, tapped the sight to the right, and another in the 10, a little too far right. So, I tapped the sight just a touch back to the left and called it a day. Guessing the 4F generates enough of its own fouling to "foul" things up; certainly the pan of my flintlocks is black and slimy after a few rounds. So, some boiling water down the bore, and I'll start with a clean rifle next time. She does seem to shoot where you point her, and at 10 pounds is pleasant to shoot. Always more to learn. Comments?

 

[Hammond79]

I had a similar experience recently shooting a few rounds with a percussion .45 w/o a patent breech. I had awful slimy fouling that completely clogged the flash channel after about 20 shots. I was swabbing with lubed patches(what I had at the time). I attribute my issue to the very light coat of WD-40 in the rifle from its last cleaning. Finally had to pull the nipple and dribble 3F in the drum it shot that load with no hesitation. I then poured a little water in and used a few patches to dry it out, no more problems that day. But the rifle was filthy.

I went back and cleaned the rifle exceptionally well, used some windex, vinegar, and alcohol to ensure the bore was completely fouling free... small spots on the breech face remain but otherwise is very clean (looks like a new dime at the bottom of the barrel). I have done two other range sessions since without the same issue. My final cleaning actions now are a patch soaked in denatured alcohol then dry patches until they come out clean.

When I shoot, I am now swabbing with a windex soaked t-shirt patch then a dry patch about every 3 shots then tipping the barrel up and tapping/shaking the gun to remove any fouling. I also run a very wet windex patch down the bore and leave it in the gun on the drive home. This really helps soften my fouling before cleaning.

 

[ligonierbill]

I ran the "cap on a patch" this morning and was surprised the first one had no effect. The next two, however, burned a nice hole in the patch. These are RWS 75 caps. Must have had some residue in that snail, even though hot water ran right through. But I think I'm good to go now.