Problems with Flint & Steel

[TDM]

you are a man of many talents!!

Thanks, but it would probably be better put “jack of all trades, master of none”.

 

[beardedhorse]

Muska, go to a music shop that sells rosin for violin bows. There's your pitch. Sap from many trees besides pine will give pitch once the sap from a slash or wound dries. Some nifty sort cuts. If you can grind the edge teeth off the file without drawing the temple (slow and easy and dip in ice or cod water often) you can save a lot of coal or gas in your forge.
The astralagus bone in the hind leg of moose, elk, deer, and antelope is actually ankle bone but looks like a knee bone. Find one and it has a natural cavity in it and nice grooves that naturally fit your hand. Elk is an ideal size. This is used from the bearing block or socket on top of the drill or spindle of your bow drill friction fire set. It needs no lubrication whereas I add grease to stone or hardwood bearing blocks. If you find them in the woods look for rib bones that aren't cracked and you have a bow for your bow drill friction fire set. Using a bone insert in a wood bearing block works as well if you can't find or get a hold of an astralagus bone. You still have to drill a dimple into the bone. Astralagus is not to be confused with astragulus which is some sort of herbal and medicinal plant found in Asian markets.

 

[pab1]

Nice work @TDM!

I can't begin to guess how many batches of char cloth I've made over the years and never plugged the hole. A small hole (small being the key) is not going to allow enough oxygen in to make a difference. A large hole might and opening the tin while the char is still hot will definitely ignite it. Early on I remember opening the tin once too soon. The cloth ignited and I instantly closed the tin. The cloth went out and still worked fine. If I hadn't put the lid back on immediately it would have ruined the batch.

Thus why I follow the laws of physics and plug the hole.

I really don't think anyone loses any points either way.......

In your quote of my post you only quoted the line I highlighted in bold where I mentioned removing the lid from the tin. It had nothing to do with the small hole in the tin not being plugged. If you remove the lid of your tin with the hole plugged, before the char cloth cools, the same thing will happen.

The "laws of common sense" will tell you there's a difference between the amount of oxygen a 1/16" (or smaller) hole allows and the amount of oxygen allowed by completely removing the lid. Unless the laws of physics cease to exist whenever I make char cloth then obviously plugging a small hole is unnecessary.

 

[The Appalachian]

The "laws of common sense" will tell you.....

To read and comprehend the entire thread if you want to argue some benign point, or another.

Somewhere I said IF your cloth is still hot enough when oxygen is introduced it will burn. IF being the key word that establishes a POSSIBLE circumstance, and the basis for why I plug the hole. It's kind of like the entire concept of insurance.

Unless the laws of physics......

It's also established physics, proven science, whatever you want to call it, that when a hot vessel cools, it rapidly draws air back inside which is basic rudimentary stuff they teach little kids in grade school about expanding and contracting gases with the change of temperature; unless there is no way for it to get in, as in sealed, holes plugged, etc. In which case when the vessel is finally opened there is a rush of air to return and equalize the space with the surrounding atmosphere. Not unlike opening a quart jar of Mummer's garden greenbeans and the lid pops when you remove it. In the case of making char cloth it's allowed to cool WAY past the danger of ignition and the returning air doesn't matter.

The laws of physics still apply whether you like them or not, or you create circumstances to end around them. You're always allowed your own opinion but never your own facts.

Read up on the IF/THEN logic equation, it will help you through this..........

 

[pab1]

To read and comprehend the entire thread if you want to argue some benign point, or another.

Somewhere I said IF your cloth is still hot enough when oxygen is introduced it will burn. IF being the key word that establishes a POSSIBLE circumstance, and the basis for why I plug the hole. It's kind of like the entire concept of insurance.



It's also established physics, proven science, whatever you want to call it, that when a hot vessel cools, it rapidly draws air back inside which is basic rudimentary stuff they teach little kids in grade school about expanding and contracting gases with the change of temperature; unless there is no way for it to get in, as in sealed, holes plugged, etc. In which case when the vessel is finally opened there is a rush of air to return and equalize the space with the surrounding atmosphere. Not unlike opening a quart jar of Mummer's garden greenbeans and the lid pops when you remove it. In the case of making char cloth it's allowed to cool WAY past the danger of ignition and the returning air doesn't matter.

The laws of physics still apply whether you like them or not, or you create circumstances to end around them. You're always allowed your own opinion but never your own facts.

Read up on the IF/THEN logic equation, it will help you through this..........

All I pointed out is that you were equating the lid of the tin being opened with not plugging the hole. If you're going to quote me to make a comparison, at least make an accurate comparison.

I've had no problem making char cloth over the years so I definitely don't need "help through this."

I'll bow out since I can see you're obviously determined to hijack the thread and turn this into an argument. I've seen too many threads derailed and locked over the years due to arrogant condescending responses. I don't want to see that happen here.

 

[The Appalachian]

I'll bow out.....

 

[TDM]

When I titled this thread “Problems with Flint & Steel” this wasn’t what I had in mind. Oh well.

 

[pab1]

If someone already mentioned it I missed it. Another great source for char cloth material is old cleaning patches. After cleaning my guns I set aside all the patches that I didn't use oil on to dry.

The patch material is fairly thin so I usually use two patches to start a fire.

 

[TDM]

If someone already mentioned it I missed it. Another great source for char cloth material is old cleaning patches. After cleaning my guns I set aside all the patches that I didn't use oil on to dry.

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The patch material is fairly thin so I usually use two patches to start a fire.
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So I little residue on the patches doesn’t hurt?

 

[pab1]

In addition to "recycling" patches, I also get more use out of the flints from my guns. Once a flint is worn out I put is aside to use in fire kits.

On this winter camp I used inner aspen bark for tinder. I also used aspen bark to hold the tinder as I mentioned in a previous post.

 

[pab1]

So I little residue on the patches doesn’t hurt?

I throw out the first few patches that are covered with powder residue when cleaning. I've never tried charring them so I can't say whether or not they would work. I've never had a problem with patches with a small amount of residue on them.

 

[TDM]

I throw out the first few patches that are covered with powder residue when cleaning. I've never tried charring them so I can't say whether or not they would work. I've never had a problem with patches with a small amount of residue on them.

I’ll start putting some aside to try, always hate throwing them away. Thanks.

 

[pab1]

You might also try charring natural tinders in your area. As others have mentioned some charred woods work well with a flint and steel. I've had mixed results with charred natural tinders and flint and steel. Some will take a spark from a high carbon steel, some won't. The titanium striker I mentioned earlier will work with most charred natural tinders.

Charring changes the burn characteristics of some materials like cattail fluff. In its natural state cattail fluff acts like a flash tinder, burning quickly. When charred it will smolder, allowing it more time to ignite your tinder/nest.

I've tried charring a variety of barks like aspen, sage and cottonwood with mixed results. Again, some work with carbon steel, some need the hotter spark of a titanium striker.

 

[pab1]

This video has some great info on using flint and steel with un-charred natural materials.

 

[pab1]

I’ll start putting some aside to try, always hate throwing them away. Thanks.

That's how I felt too. I didn't want to put them down the bore again but I felt like they were in good enough condition to be used for something.

 

[TDM]

Yep. Waste not, want not.

 

[The Appalachian]

When I titled this thread “Problems with Flint & Steel” this wasn’t what I had in mind. Oh well.

Some people will argue over the dumbest things for the dumbest reasons. I literally eluded to it probably doesn't matter much either way, and yet still somebody got upset. I don't like doing things twice and wasting time. 99% of everything you research about making char will tell you to exclude air from it until it's cool enough to handle. It doesn't say ah heck don't worry about it, you'll probably never have a problem because this one guy on the internet never had a problem.

 

[toot]

If someone already mentioned it I missed it. Another great source for char cloth material is old cleaning patches. After cleaning my guns I set aside all the patches that I didn't use oil on to dry.

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The patch material is fairly thin so I usually use two patches to start a fire.
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that is just what I do with my old cleaning patches. I put them in a pint paint can, and make char cloth out of them. a tight old SWAMP YANKEE!! WASTE NOT WANT NOT!

 

[pab1]

Yep. Waste not, want not.

that is just what I do with my old cleaning patches. I put them in a pint paint can, and make char cloth out of them. a tight old SWAMP YANKEE!! WASTE NOT WANT NOT!

Good to know I'm not the only "frugal" minded person out there.

 

[Seamus]

Try watching Coalcracker Bushcraft on the You Tube.