Problems with my Euroarms Enfield M 1858 Naval

[Charly_the_rebel]

I do have some serious problems with my Euroarms Enfield M 1858 Naval.
It does not show the famous accuracy - never !

First I checked the Diameter - its .557.
So I get .577 elongatet Minie's and a Lyman mould for it.
560 grain of weigth, 3 grease-grooves, not too deep bottom
Second I checked if any frictions or pressing 'tween Barrel and Lockplate -there is none .
Then I found the > How to manage the Enfields < , by W.S. Curtis..
So to the third, I checked and re-worked the whole rifled musket on this wonderful advices.

I use the rigth kind of bullet with the rigth diameter, I fire 65 grains Wano PP , I grease the bullet with a mixture of 1/3 beeswax 1/3 lard and 1/3 Margerine ( to soften it ) and I use a Dynamite Nobel - 4-wing Perkussion-cap...

But the stubborn thing do not want show any constant accuracy at all - not even on the benchrest !
Gimme help, if you can.

 

[skeetabop]

I bought the exact gun last year.
My first shot is usually low about 6 inches, after that it is right on. To rememdy the first shot problem, I run a patch with bore butter on it down the muzzle a few times. When i first started shooting it was shooting to the left a hair also. I looked at the fixed soldered sights and thought nothing I could do. One day, I took my thumb and applied pressure to the back sight (not the base, but the sight attached to the base) and it moved a 3 hairs to the right! After that, it is right on.
I have tried different loads and my best load is 85 grains of Pyrodex. 60 works good too, as used in the war, the original spec load is 68 grains. The only bullet I have shot is the T/C Maxi hunter. I used it deer hunting this year (much to the chagrin of my fellow shotgun hunters) and both times I fired, both times it was right on ( my first deer, right thru the heart at 150 yards!). I turned a lot of skeptics into beleivers. I only use the "battle sight", that is the flattest selection on the rear sight (100 yard), you really have to get your head on the stock and look down the sights, cause as you know the sights arn't very high, and the back sight is very wide. At 75 - 100 yards the battle sight is right on, if you shoot anything closer, you will need to aim a little low and anything up to 150 yards, just a tad high. Mine seems to be more accurate the more rounds I shoot and I don't run a patch down the barrel unless I shoot 10 times.
I hope this info helps.

 

[marmot]

Hi Charly,

If it is a Euroarms it may not have the 1:48 twist - it may have the slower twist, and only 3 lands/grooves. If so, I highly reccomend a shorter, lighter bullet for it. My Euro 1858 gives lousy accuracy with long heavy bullets, but does quite well with a Lee wadcutter style of less than 500 grains (the "trashcan" style); my Parker Hale 1858 does best with the longer, heavier bullets. Also, I have found that, for whatever reason, the Euro 1858 shoots better with a thick, stiff lube... may just be that gun.

You are using known, PURE lead for the minies, aren't you? Even a little contamination by harder lead will usually wreck accuracy.

Good Luck!

M

ps. just noticed Skeetabop is using a T/C maxi hunter in his... also a lighter bullet if I recall correctly. Beg or borrow some lighter bullets and try them out.

 

[skeetabop]

The Euroarms 1858 has the 48 twist. The T/C maxi hunters are 560 grains lubed with bore butter. From what I read in forums, most don't have good luck with the maxi hunter, but mine seems to like them. Seems to like deer too.
I hope we hear from other 2 band owners and Euroarms Enfields owners. It's all great info and something will work for your gun. I have another thread going in the percusion rifle section about 1858 Enfields and not many answering it. I'm thinkin we are a real small minority. It sounds like the one commen factor with that gun is; it shoots better when the grooves are fouled.

 

[le piaf]

Hello Charly
the 3 grooves italian enfield have not the reputation ( it is my french experience)to be the more accurate, lot of them have the Twist of the Mle 53 . check your bore and if you find 1/72 , follow the upper advice : a lighter bullet and decreased load

Mit Blei und Pulver
E.B.

 

[Charly_the_rebel]

You guys are rigth !

Yes Sir's - I use only pure and very soft lead to cast my ML-bullets for the Enfield. I have found out the hard way , that the thing will not eat mixed / hardened types of lead...

And I although saw, that it'll takes only a very soft kind of grease to shot with.

I checked it out - my Euroarms M 1858 Naval has only 3 grooves and - what the heck - a twist of 1 : whatever.... I have no Idea.
Does anyone knows the twis exactely ?

To hear about ligther weight bullets... Mmmh...
I will give it a try.
As far as I can remember : ligther weight Minie-bullets will take a flatter ( not as deep as regular ) hollow bulletbase - do I see this in the rigth way ?
( But I have to look for lighter traditional Minie's - the > Trashcan-minie's < - as nice and well as they are might be - they are not allowed here in any official competition. )

all in all ya gave me some grat Infos and Tips - let me say thank you each and everyone !

@ Le Piaf :
Dont take it wrong - you mixed the last greetingwords in your Posting.
The correct way is :
> Mit Pulver und Blei ...<
But it was Fun to read a German word in a US forum !
Thanks !

 

[GJP]

Try the guys at the North South Skirmish Assoc. They shoot 1858 Enfields in there carbine matches. You may get more replys there.(www.n-ssa.org) good luck

 

[marmot]

Actually, the two banders are long enough that they are classed as muskets - have to drop to the 'toons to be legal for carbine. Fortunately we are not limited by bullet style (I have been using the trashcan in a Euro two band for competition there), so we don't have Charly's problem...

Perhaps an option would be a Metford style bullet... you can keep the length but reduce the weight considerably if desired; I don't know if these would be legal for you or not... if so, take a few of your regular minies, chuck them in a hobby lathe, and bore a 1/8 - 1/4" hole in the center front, ie make a hollowpoint. For complete directions search the threads at the Long Range Muzzleloader group (at yahoo) under "Metford style Bullets" - a gentleman from NZ posted a detailed set of directions on constructing these in response to my question there... might be just the thing for you.

Beware the Euro 2 banders: they apparently come in different twist rates! Try measuring the twist with a tightly fitted cleaning patch.

Auf weiderhoeren!
(or something like that... it's been along time :grin: )

M

 

[Charly_the_rebel]

Beware the Euro 2 banders: they apparently come in different twist rates! Try measuring the twist with a tightly fitted cleaning patch.

Beweare of any Enfield copy but Parker Hale ! The PH-2-banders just doing very,very fine ! But since they are no more in production, they cost an arm and a Leg over here....
Auf weiderhoeren!
(or something like that... it's been along time :grin: )
Auf Wieder-sehen !
( " Auf Wieder-hören is in use on the Phone
M

 

[le piaf]

hello Charly
MLAIC authorize ,Minie bullet (some design , from CW model to Hodgdon ) and since 2004 ,Wilkinson
profile . Greg Edington can advice you upon this interesting type of bullet .
I have also tried (I was desesperate)these thash can in a :cursing: PH mle 53 rebel to usual loads and bullets but without correct results.

 

[CARBABY]

Charley: try some card board shims under the bands. For a thin shim try a 3x5 card thickness
cut so that you have enough to stick out about a inch on either side of the band. Thighten the band in place, rip the inch card board that sticks out either side of the band. What your trying to do is just provide a shim under the metal band. Fire for effect - see how the grouping goes. Some muskets will take thick card board from the back of a writing tablet. Try the shim between the barrel and band first not the band and the wood. For thinner shims I have used those subscription cards that come in magazines.

 

[Charly_the_rebel]

Hi !

That make sense - W.S Curtis ( How to manage the Enfields) coniders a almost equal method.
I give it a try.
I will try out any tip that will promise that my gun will get regular and acceptable accuracy.

Today I am workingon checking again the fit of the Tang and the Breech-plug in the Stock.
A Gunsmith ( Buechsenmacher ) told me a few day ago, that maybe the Barrel was a bad production and it is possible, that in the Steel of the Barrel will be some tensions wich distroy the accuracy.
He also said, I should warm Barrel up with a torch, to ease the tensions.....
But I never done this before - and I am a little afraid I could ruin the whole thing.

@ all .
Thanks for any helping Idea !
Please continue !
We get the thing to fire accurately - sooner or later !

 

[skeetabop]

I took my Euroarms 1858 2 band Enfield out today and shot Maxi-balls for the first time. I used my usual 85 grains of Pyrodex. I prelubed my barrel with butter bore before the first shot. Put a life size poster of a buck 75 yards out. I aimed for the heart area. My first shot was low and to the left about 18 inches! My second and third shots were the correct elevation, but to the left about 4-6 inches. 4th, 5th, 6th shots were all dead on. 7th shot i couldn't even find. 8th, 9th shots were about 4- 6 inches high.
I always shoot Maxi-Hunters and have better accuracy. The 7th shot was a mystery to me and I wonder if I hit one of the same holes I had shot before? I really wonder about the back sight on the Enfield. It seems wide to me and if you don't line up real well, it could give the variance on the horizontal shooting. I do shoot left handed.

 

[faw3]

I had the same problem and thought it was the rifle till I tryed a roundball out of it and it shot great, others here have given good ways to go , but if you want to find out fast if its the barrel try a RB. Fred :hatsoff: Dont torch near front sight it will fall off! I know.